SFE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 34
Registered: 06-02-2005
IP: Logged

File: Jnis Tomb v297 Easy.hold (46 KB)
Downloaded 68 times.
License: Public Domain

This is a hold that I have been toying around with for along time, and I would like to release. Therefore, please let me know whether it is ready to be released. It is not hard, but it is my first hold designed.

Thanks!

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[Last edited by mrimer at 12-21-2005 08:09 PM]

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Level 1. The yellow door in front of the stairs in the entrance won't drop. A problem with the scripting maybe? (I don't know anything about scripting, having never used the editor except to test rooms. BTW, how do you determine co-ordinates in the editor?) Two east isn't completeable, so the stairs can't be reached there either. An NPC turns into a monster (wraithwing) in the larger part of the room but is unreachable.

Two main criticisms - firstly, it's far too easy, even for new players, as they will most likely already have played the first 3 levels in DROD/JtRH. The monsters simply don't have a fighting chance, so it doesn't really teach anything. Secondly, it soon gets old having to kill mud to open doors, especially when you have been through a room a couple of times. OK, three main criticisms - there's a lot of rooms that you enter stood on a door; it's not good design (says me, who's never even attempted to build a hold.)

Lastly, the secret room on level 3 that's not possible; if it's not possible, why bother having it? Unless you intend building on it and making it possible.
Edit: I know it's not a secret room, but you have to go through a secret room to reach it.

Sorry if I sound a bit negative, but I really think that by the time you reach the second and third levels, the difficulty should have been a upped a bit.

Anyway, you certainly have plenty to build on should you wish to do so.

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[Last edited by bandit1200 at 12-22-2005 07:29 AM]

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

The yellow door does open. I know this, because I beat the hold.

Two east is completable, I've already done it.

The MUD thing is irritating. There is nothing wrong with entering a room standing on a door, it happens a lot.

This is DESIGNED to be a really, really easy hold. I don't see anything wrong with it being easier than KDD or JtRH.

As for the room on floor 3? I guess he's trying to see if it can be Rabscuttled.

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2494
Registered: 09-10-2004
IP: Logged

3E, right? It's possible but admittedly I solved it using the editor. Surviving the initial onslaught seems to be largely a matter of luck (or infinite undo) I started on the east side of the entrance, came forward to bring the eastern WWs forward, so that when I retreated back to the entrance they were on my west with the others. Then it's hoping the snakes are blocked at the right times and the WWs don't manage to get round to the east.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

...It got Rabscuttled.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
The yellow door does open. I know this, because I beat the hold.

I stand corrected, though I am still unable to get it to open here

Two east is completable, I've already done it.

Again, I stand corrected, but as yet I don't see how.

The MUD thing is irritating. There is nothing wrong with entering a room standing on a door, it happens a lot.

Yes, I know it happens a lot; that doesn't mean it's good design.

This is DESIGNED to be a really, really easy hold.

That is obvious, though I still don't see the point of a hold easier than the demo levels. If a player finds the demo levels difficult, is s/he likely to stick around looking for easier ones?

I don't see anything wrong with it being easier than KDD or JtRH.

Then we will have to agree to differ on that point.

As for the room on floor 3? I guess he's trying to see if it can be Rabscuttled.

As has happened. But my point was that if the author didn't think it was possible... aw, never mind. It's seldom I comment on holds and it seems I ought to keep it that way. (Stop nodding, you at the back!)

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

Two East is just a matter of...


And I don't know what you're doing with the yellow door, because I got through there just fine. Really, I have no idea. The level has to be complete for it to open, though.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
Two East is just a matter of...

Click here to view the secret text

× entering from the west entrance. Surely you noticed those walls are breakable, right?

Yes, that's where I entered, but

[qoute]And I don't know what you're doing with the yellow door, because I got through there just fine. Really, I have no idea. The level has to be complete for it to open, though. The level is complete with the blue door dropped, and with all secrets. The wraithwing appears, but there is no speech, which according to the scripting, there should be. If I understand correctly, the orb to open the door should be struck when the character appears before it changes to a wraithwing. It's also possible to wander around a lot of the room without triggering the wraithwing, in which case the door wouldn't get opened anyway.

Apologies if I'm talking through my hat, I only looked at scripting and how it works in the last 10 minutes.

Edit: I just played the first level through again and the door still doesn't drop, nor do the speech and the "striking instructor" show.

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[Last edited by bandit1200 at 12-23-2005 11:01 AM]

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

You serious? I remember the guy opening it, and then the wraithwing showing up later. I wasn't really paying attention, though, cause I hit the secret entrance--I think maybe it screws up if the secret room is your last.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

As serious as I can be about a game.

SFE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 34
Registered: 06-02-2005
IP: Logged

File: Jnis Tomb v297 Easy.hold (46.1 KB)
Downloaded 45 times.
License: Public Domain

I have a new version, and I have attempted to adress all issues raised. With regard to difficulty, I will release another hold, Journey to the Goblin Kingdom, which is more difficult. If you want to help, I have a post for that hold, on this board. Please check it out. Also test this new version.

____________________________
Holds We have Made:
Chased and Hunted
Journey to the Goblin Kingdom I
J'nis Tomb 2.9.7

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

I downloaded the new version and still have the same problems. The yellow door in front of the stairs still doesn't drop, the wraithwing appears but there's no speech or graphic, and I still don't see how it's possible to kill the wraithwing in 2E to open the green door.

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged

I know the problems. First, the WW character in entrance is set to appear after speaking. Nonexistant characters can't speak. The second problem is that when the WW character executes his script, the jump between appearing and becoming a monster doesn't have a 1 turn break that would allow the other NPC to detect it. In 2E, you cannot clear it because you cannot beat the WW. My personal thoughts are that if it checked for a clear room first, then it would work because a clear room is defined as green doors being droppe. You would enter from the west, clear the room, then enter from the north with the doors dropped.

SFE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 34
Registered: 06-02-2005
IP: Logged

File: Jnis Tomb v297 Easy.hold (46.2 KB)
Downloaded 44 times.
License: Public Domain

I believe I have finally fixed all the problems with level endings. All secret rooms are beatable and all levels are exitable. If anyone finds a problem please post. Otherwise, I am releasing this hold.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Seems OK now.

SFE
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 34
Registered: 06-02-2005
IP: Logged

File: Jnis Tomb v297.hold (46.3 KB)
Downloaded 42 times.
License: Public Domain

Important!

I am releasing this hold tommorow, so if there is any major problem, please post immiediately. Otherwise, tommorow I am releasing this hold. Thanks for all the help.