Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

I've been all round this foru-room corner several times, and still can't get out. My problem seems to be in this room. I can't open the red door until I have stepped on all the trapdoors; I can't step on all the trapdoors without going through the red door; and I can't go through the green dooer until I have killed all the monsters in this room. But I can clear all of the right-hand side, or the top left, bit not both at the same time. What an I missing here?

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

you can't do both at the same time
you need the mimic's help to do either one

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

Thank you Swann; but that just repeats what I wrote. I can clear either side; the snakes without the help of the mimic. The question is, how do I clear both sides, and still get to go through the green door?

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Hm.. not really sure how to give hints..



Does that help?

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

Sorry,I must be particularly dense this morning, but I still don't see it.

Obviously I'm missing something (maybe lots of things) here. Please help!


____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

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[Last edited by Kafka at 07-05-2005 10:51 AM]

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Kafka wrote:
Sorry,I must be particularly dense this morning, but I still don't see it.

Click here to view the secret text

×In order to kill the snakes, I have to put the mimic beyond the force arrows, so that I can strike the gong and open the gates. Otherwise, they just go round and round in circles.

Click here to view the secret text

×Once I have opened the gate at the top left, I have closed the roach queens in a pen at the bottom, and can't open that at all, so I have to put the mimic in there too.

Click here to view the secret text

×Obviously, I can't do both. And, if I do either, I can't take the mimic over the first trapdoor straight after the green door.

Click here to view the secret text

×And anyway, I haven't been able to kill all of the goblins and wraithwings without the help of the mimic in the top left.

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[Last edited by TripleM at 07-05-2005 11:04 AM]

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

TripleM wrote:

Kafka wrote:
Sorry,I must be particularly dense this morning, but I still don't see it.

Click here to view the secret text

×In order to kill the snakes, I have to put the mimic beyond the force arrows, so that I can strike the gong and open the gates. Otherwise, they just go round and round in circles.

Click here to view the secret text

×Why use the mimic? You can hit the orb at the top-middle of the screen yourself..

Oops, I missed that, Thanks.

Click here to view the secret text

×Once I have opened the gate at the top left, I have closed the roach queens in a pen at the bottom, and can't open that at all, so I have to put the mimic in there too.

Click here to view the secret text

×Correct.

Click here to view the secret text

×Obviously, I can't do both. And, if I do either, I can't take the mimic over the first trapdoor straight after the green door.

Click here to view the secret text

×True, but you don't need to?

Click here to view the secret text

×And anyway, I haven't been able to kill all of the goblins and wraithwings without the help of the mimic in the top left.

I'll just have to keep working at that until I manage it!

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

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[Last edited by Kafka at 07-05-2005 12:10 PM]

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

TripleM wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×Why do you want to drop the red door?

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

OK, let me be a tiny bit more explicit

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

Now why didn't I think of that? Thanks, it helps a lot; I'll just have to cooncentrate onthe rest, then.

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

Months on, and I'm STILL stuck here. Further on, but hopelessly stuck. Having cleared everything else, I just can't navigate the force-arrow maze. I don't know how many times I've tried, but whatever I do I still get stuck in the middle. Can I do it on my own, or do I need the mimic as well?

Please someone give me a steer, or I will rot in here and never see the light of day again!

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Kafka wrote:
Months on, and I'm STILL stuck here. Further on, but hopelessly stuck. Having cleared everything else, I just can't navigate the force-arrow maze. I don't know how many times I've tried, but whatever I do I still get stuck in the middle. Can I do it on my own, or do I need the mimic as well?

I think it is perfectly possible to clear all the trapdoors on your own.

Please someone give me a steer, or I will rot in here and never see the light of day again!

Ah, but that's the whole point of an infested dungeon, you see. Exterminators like yourself are unwelcome visitors, and so the inhabitants and architecture are designed so that they try to trap you in the dungeon, or even better, kill you (which is the intended result anyway). It's just that there seem to be a handful of clever exterminators (yourself being one of them) who seem to be able to solve every puzzle they come across by finding one of the few solutions to a room and competently executing it. Indeed, they are the bane of the Empire and in their opinion, must be stopped (although with no access to Caravel thugs, they are not likely to succeed).

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 09-07-2005 11:56 PM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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A very helpfull way to deal with this kind of rooms is to use pen and paper (preferably squared paper, if that what it´s called in english). Make some squares on your paper, and choose a path and write it down on the paper (write a 1 on the representation of the first square of the path, a 2 on the next, and so forth) If you do that you can "see" witch trapdoors you do not get to and adjust your path to include them. It still was difficult, but it is kind of fun, and it shouldn´t take too long. I needed to make several such paper representations of this particular room.

Good luck

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 09-08-2005 12:11 AM]

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

I did this one by writing a computer program So I can't really help too much with strategy here..

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

I'm sorry, it's no good, I just can't solve the force arrow maze. I've been trying for weeks, if not months, without success. I can't get any further with this hold until I leave this room, and I'm just not enjoying it any more.

Please someone show me the way out, post a demo, or help me in some way.

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
IP: Logged

File: AQP Arrow Maze Level 5 2S, 1W (Solution).jpg (49.2 KB)
Downloaded 237 times.
License: Public Domain

I sympathize K, this is an extremely tricky puzzle, and we don’t want to lose a player to a small part of a marvellous hold so I have attached the solution. Note that trapdoors #16 and #36 are dropped independently. For the red gate to open, all the trapdoors in the room have to be dropped so before your return west through the maze don't forget the singleton at (22, 6).

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[Last edited by Atch at 09-26-2005 01:19 PM]

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

Thanks, Atch. That's very clear; but there's still a problem. I can't use your diagram for that, and perhaps it's the reason I can't solve this at all. Perhaps I shouldn't be there at all, and have done something stupid in the past. What do I do now?

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.

---

[Last edited by Kafka at 09-26-2005 12:43 PM]

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
IP: Logged

This explains everything K: this room is visited several times (4?) and the time that you drop the trapdoor maze to open the red gate you have to have already dropped the large area of trapdoors to the south. I suspect that clearing the arrow maze entering from the east and exiting west is indeed impossible. On your first encounter with the arrow maze you should just travel west and exit directly: is the gate at (0, 7) not open?

Kafka
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 42
Registered: 01-18-2004
IP: Logged

Cracked it now, Atch. I found a much earlier restore point, and solved it from there. Now I only have to (again) clear the other rooms in this corner. It's a good hold, but that puzzle finally totally frustrated me.

____________________________
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary; he will come on the day after his arrival; he will come, not on the last day, but on the very last.