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acrobat
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Impossible levels? (0)

Are there some levels that are impossible to beat on Hard? Or, more to the point, is there a Hard mode solution for Coal Mine? I've looked at it and it looks impossible to meet the quota as the level currently stands, because one of the one-way pipes exits to dirt instead of an empty tile. If I use dynamite on it, then I don't have enough to get to the exit.

Am I just overlooking something obvious? (not asking for a spoiler, just want to know if I'd be wasting my time looking for a solution.)

[Edited by acrobat at Local Time:06-07-2005 at 07:16 AM: changed thread title]

05-28-2005 at 10:38 AM

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Radiant
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

No, every level in every set is possible both on easy and on hard. For the Prime set, Silver and myself are the witnesses, for we've done so.

The level is all about efficiency.

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05-28-2005 at 01:26 PM

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silver
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

I haven't looked at coal mine in a few years, but I seem to recall it involving things like this:

using dynamite next to T-shaped walls so it opens 2 sections for the cost of one blast

digging dirt out of the way "ahead" of where you will want to pipe to later

panicing in screaming horror as you realize you have to not only blow up half a dozen butterfly thingies, but get at least a couple of them to die in useful places.

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05-28-2005 at 02:26 PM

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Darkmatt
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

It looks impossible...but it's just too hard your puny minds.

Anyway yes, all levels can be mastered. (Though I'm not waiting for another Ultimate.) Even "Good Luck!", "Razzle Dazzle", and "Ray Tracing".

05-28-2005 at 07:18 PM

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wackhead_uk
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Just wondering, but on tetrathlon, you can't pick up the gems in the first part, as you jsut bounce off them. is this intended?

05-28-2005 at 11:07 PM

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Darkmatt
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Yes, because you're suppposed to get ALL GEAR FIRST. XD

When all else fails, skip it and advance on, grasshopper.

05-28-2005 at 11:16 PM

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Radiant
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Yes, if you're gliding over ice, you'll bounce back from anything. Even from gems.

Personally I don't even find Ray Tracing all that difficult, it's pretty obvious what you're supposed to do. Unlike, for instance, Replicating, which had gasping at the screen for quite a while.

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05-29-2005 at 01:20 PM

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Darkmatt
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

I dunno HOW you can get 41 gems in "Replicating"!

LET ALONE actually get more then just A ruby after firing!

05-29-2005 at 07:23 PM

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Radiant
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Click here to view the secret text

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05-29-2005 at 10:08 PM

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Darkmatt
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Yes, yes I know....it's just driving me nuts.

05-30-2005 at 09:32 PM

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acrobat
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Radiant wrote:
No, every level in every set is possible both on easy and on hard. For the Prime set, Silver and myself are the witnesses, for we've done so.

The level is all about efficiency.

I'll go back and take a closer look, then. Hopefully I'll figure out what I am doing wrong. Can you push explosives through pipes, then? I assumed that was impossible.

05-31-2005 at 10:43 PM

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eytanz
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

It's impossible to push bombs through tunnels.

For coal mine, I ended up cheating and looking at the hard solution using the in-game code. Now I have to wait until I forget it before I go and solve the level myself...

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05-31-2005 at 10:58 PM

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Darkmatt
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

SHAMEFUL! XD

06-01-2005 at 01:22 AM

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acrobat
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File: coalmine-problem.png (119.3 KB)
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Well, I looked at it again, and it still seems to be impossible. Are you sure there isn't supposed to be an open square here?

[Edited by acrobat at Local Time:06-01-2005 at 06:32 AM]

06-01-2005 at 06:27 AM

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Radiant
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Why yes, I am sure. You are aware that you're carrying bombs, right? I believe the activation key was backspace. Or, plausibly, you can go around the top left?

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06-01-2005 at 08:28 AM

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acrobat
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Well, I think I have it figured out, here's my logic.

Click here to view the secret text

×
The reasoning behind impossibility:

1. The gem quota on hard is 92 gems; this means that every gem in the level must be collected.
2. There are 3 dynamite and 6 explosives in the level.
3. 5 of the gems are behind gray-brick walls and have to be blasted out.
4. The first dynamite is used to exit the second area (top-right corner of the level) so only 2 dynamite are available.
5. If 5 of the 6 explosives are used to get at the blocked diamonds, then there is only one "free", but it needs to be used to blast a hole so that the explosives can be pushed to the correct area for the gems in the lower-left part of the level.
6. The remaining two dynamite are necessary to blast through to the detonator for the explosives (and to reach the level exit.)

Why I think it's impossible:
Because, if you are in the top left area of the level, it is only possible to reach the explosives along the left corner and blow them up by dropping a rock on them. Since there is dirt behind them they cannot be pushed anywhere (and the level does not have a magnet.) In fact it is completely impossible to reach the other side without exploding something, as one pipe points outward and the other is blocked by dirt. Using dynamite simply makes it impossible to hit the detonator, there is nothing in the area near it to drop on slimeys for explosions and the explosive box can't be pushed through the pipe - not that there would be anything to drop on it to set it off either.

So any path must necessarily leave you short of explosions needed to complete the level.

Assuming that it is possible to beat the level, then it has to be done this way:

Click here to view the secret text

[Edited by acrobat at Local Time:06-02-2005 at 06:21 AM]

06-01-2005 at 08:08 PM

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eytanz
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Your logic is almost impeccable. I've been having a hard time finding a hint that's not totally explicit, though - this is the best I can do:

Click here to view the secret text

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06-01-2005 at 08:33 PM

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acrobat
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

eytanz wrote:
Your logic is almost impeccable. I've been having a hard time finding a hint that's not totally explicit, though - this is the best I can do:

Click here to view the secret text
×You have shown that you need the three rocks to free the gems. Is there anything else you can use to destroy the pipe?

Click here to view the secret text

06-01-2005 at 10:00 PM

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eytanz
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Ok, somewhat more explicit -

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06-01-2005 at 10:43 PM

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acrobat
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

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Although it sure would be simpler if there was an open square on the other end of that pipe I pointed out upthread.

[Edited by acrobat at Local Time:06-02-2005 at 01:19 AM]

06-02-2005 at 01:18 AM

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acrobat
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Darkmatt wrote:
I dunno HOW you can get 41 gems in "Replicating"!

LET ALONE actually get more then just A ruby after firing!

There are 34 gems in the level, so it takes some effort to pull that off. I think I'm up to about 39 now... and I still haven't found a way to catch the one that falls when you set off the mines in the first room.

Hmm, I thought of something different... time to go see if I can work another angle on it.

06-07-2005 at 07:15 AM

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acrobat
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

Ah, it worked. Got all 41 gems, and even had one dynamite left over!

06-07-2005 at 07:41 AM

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Insane
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

New room but it fits to the topic:
In vertigo i find it impossible to collect all gems because to do that you need to somehow go into a teleporter horizontally and i don't know where and how to do that.
plz help

-Insane

09-11-2005 at 02:35 PM

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eytanz
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

It's been too long and I don't really remember the exact solution, but it's definitely possible to get all the gems in vertigo.

Remember that if you go back into a teleporter you just came from, you'll often end somewhere else than where you came from. Other than that, you may find it useful to map the teleporters on a piece of paper - that's what I did. Once you do it, it's possible to find a path that takes you through all of them in all the required directions.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 09-11-2005 03:18 PM]

09-11-2005 at 03:18 PM

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partyanimal
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

so how did you get the required amount of gems in replicating? please i am do stuck here

02-19-2006 at 08:50 PM

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McFrugal
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

I've just started the game, and I've been messing around in the Tutorial levels. The 'Elementary' level has a warp in it that you need suction boots to get. You can backtrack with them from later on and reach the warp, of course.

The problem is, the red exit requires a yellow key to get to, and there's no yellow key in the room there. There's one later on in the main part of the level, but a munchkin eats your tools before you can get to it. That means it's impossible to have both the suction boots and the yellow key at the same time. Can't even grab the key first, you have to have the suction boots in order to get to the key, too.

So uh, is there a yellow key in the safe or something? There's only supposed to be eggs in them from what the description says.

Also, in a different tutorial, the one that deals with different types of walls, there's a warp right at the start but you just bounce off it, even with the cheat code that gives you all the tools. What's with that?

03-03-2006 at 03:02 PM

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Pinnacle
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

McFrugal wrote:
Also, in a different tutorial, the one that deals with different types of walls, there's a warp right at the start but you just bounce off it, even with the cheat code that gives you all the tools. What's with that?

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03-03-2006 at 04:03 PM

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The Stew Boy
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Re: Impossible levels? (0)

McFrugal wrote:
I've just started the game, and I've been messing around in the Tutorial levels. The 'Elementary' level has a warp in it that you need suction boots to get. You can backtrack with them from later on and reach the warp, of course.

The problem is, the red exit requires a yellow key to get to, and there's no yellow key in the room there. There's one later on in the main part of the level, but a munchkin eats your tools before you can get to it. That means it's impossible to have both the suction boots and the yellow key at the same time. Can't even grab the key first, you have to have the suction boots in order to get to the key, too.

So uh, is there a yellow key in the safe or something? There's only supposed to be eggs in them from what the description says.

You're right. There are only eggs in safes. No keys.
To do that, as far as I can see, the only logical explanation was to collect some dynamite from the secret room, and destroy the Munchkin that blocks your way.
Of course, as I haven't actually tried the above, I don't know if it will work or not, but it seems the only way as far as I can see.

03-04-2006 at 09:42 AM

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