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Oneiromancer
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I think perhaps all y'all should start thinking about a different kind of challenge: instead of new and interesting ways to solve a certain room, perhaps try to think of challenging dungeon rooms (or perhaps entire dungeons) to create. I kind of got this inspiration from the Maze + Tar thread in the General forum, but I am sure we could take it a bit farther. I don't know if this will end up being a good idea, but you never know. And we will have lots of time to think of interesting things before the beta is done. This kind of challenge is especially for those of us who might not have a lot of time to build our own holds, but want to see certain things in holds we are downloading.

An example might be: design a room that requires you to shorten a snake to a specific length to use later in that room. This could be done by leading a snake into a dead end with a door, then timing when opening the door, etc. Of course, then a whole level could be build off of this tactic, using other creatures or mimics instead of doors, etc.

Another example: create a room mostly filled with Brains. The way that Beethro carves his way through the Brain-carpet must be an integral part of the puzzle.

Or even simply: I like level 9! Someone make more puzzles like that! This is kind of a challenge for those levels that have ingenious puzzles, but might be more appropriate for the General forum.

Anyway, what do people think of this?

Game on,

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06-25-2003 at 02:02 AM
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ErikH2000
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Anyway, what do people think of this?
Excellent idea. This is how I begin making my rooms. Here's a quick list of one-liners I had laying around.

- One roach must be kept alive after killing many other roaches.

- A space is too large and must be made smaller.

- A room has many entrances and the lynchpin is finding the correct entrance.

- An inner chamber becomes an outer chamber. You were inside--now you're outside.

- A monster is behind you and you are forced to flee for a very long time.

- You have to kill a brain before the other monsters, but it doesn't seem that way.

- A waterfall of monster receptacles. When one receptacle fills up, it pours into the next.

- Overlapping chambers.

Intentionally, I like to begin with a vague underdeveloped ideas. You may have meant ideas that are more defined.

-Erik

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06-25-2003 at 05:23 AM
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Oneiromancer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Intentionally, I like to begin with a vague underdeveloped ideas. You may have meant ideas that are more defined.
-Erik

I think that vague underdeveloped ideas are best for entire levels, and more defined ideas should be for single rooms (or perhaps a small group of rooms). And after all, a challenge isn't too fun if it takes you several hours to build an entire level, as opposed to less than an hour (probably) to build and test a single room.

Although perhaps eventually there could be competitions, you know, submit this kind of level to Caravel by a certain date, have all the DRODians test them all and rank them, and the best ones get "sanctioned" as "semi-official" downloads from the website, so new players will be able to get the best player-made levels instead of having to try them all. Actually, it would probably make the most sense to put the best 5 levels in a mini-hold or something like that.

Game on,

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06-25-2003 at 05:05 PM
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ErikH2000
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I think that vague underdeveloped ideas are best for entire levels, and more defined ideas should be for single rooms (or perhaps a small group of rooms). And after all, a challenge isn't too fun if it takes you several hours to build an entire level, as opposed to less than an hour (probably) to build and test a single room.
Oh, I guess I misunderstood you. What exactly is the challenge? Build a room to certain specifications?

Although perhaps eventually there could be competitions, you know, submit this kind of level to Caravel by a certain date, have all the DRODians test them all and rank them, and the best ones get "sanctioned" as "semi-official" downloads from the website, so new players will be able to get the best player-made levels instead of having to try them all.
Ranking and rating is cool. That would be a nice feature to have on the website, though it requires some thought and programming. With a small number of authors/voters there is probably a simpler way to hand out ratings using the board polls.

DROD:AE also allows for one person to serve as an "editor" (literary sense) and collect levels from multiple authors into a single hold.

A "Best Of" hold based on public vote sounds interesting. Chip's Challenge users did something similiar and released a level pack with the top-ranked levels.

-Erik

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06-25-2003 at 06:28 PM
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Schik
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Ranking and rating is cool. That would be a nice feature to have on the website, though it requires some thought and programming. With a small number of authors/voters there is probably a simpler way to hand out ratings using the board polls.
Erik, you of all people shouldn't think like that! Get this baby out, and get Mac & Linux versions out too, and you'll be the talk of the town! You'll be overrun with so many holds you won't know what to do! I like exclamation points!!

In time, when this is actually needed, I wouldn't mind writing something to do this. It would be a lot like a poll... but more like multiple polls in one post. And with a 1..10 dropdown perhaps instead of a bunch of radio buttons. And... and let's wait until we're stable before thinking too hard about this. :) Except it would be cool!

And the winner of a contest could come up with the theme for the next one. :devil
06-25-2003 at 06:37 PM
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Oneiromancer
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Oh, I guess I misunderstood you. What exactly is the challenge? Build a room to certain specifications?
-Erik

Well, I guess what I presented in the original post was more like a "level or room request" type feature rather than actual challenges, at least in the same way as the current room solving challenges on the forum. But I'm not sure how I can explain it better, except by the examples in the first post. I think the example about the snakes of specific lengths is more of a challenge, while the example about a "brain-carpet" is more of a design suggestion. (Although now that I think about it, there probably isn't much difference between a "brain carpet" and a big square of breakable walls, except for the disgustingness factor.)

Game on,

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06-25-2003 at 07:16 PM
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ErikH2000
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Schik wrote:
Erik, you of all people shouldn't think like that! Get this baby out, and get Mac & Linux versions out too, and you'll be the talk of the town!
(Wringing my hands with sinister glee.)

Don't want to get cocky, but yeah, I think there will be a lot of user creativity. I look at games like LaserTank and Chip's Challenge, and hope for a similar number of new levels. We've already got people managing to make holds despite the horrible bugs that make it near impossible. I'm plenty optimistic!

-Erik

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06-25-2003 at 08:18 PM
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billbuckner
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This would be intresting: Make a level with a secret level warp... without using breakable walls.
07-08-2003 at 01:27 PM
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mrimer
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Reminds me of the "secret" way that you have to take to get to the exit in level 10.
07-08-2003 at 03:36 PM
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eytanz
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Level 10 uses breakable walls, I believe.

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07-08-2003 at 05:17 PM
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Oneiromancer
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billbuckner wrote:
This would be intresting: Make a level with a secret level warp... without using breakable walls.

What do you mean...have the exit room have orbs in it that change what level you go to but don't let the player know?

Game on,

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07-08-2003 at 06:28 PM
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billbuckner
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Oneiromancer wrote:
billbuckner wrote:
This would be intresting: Make a level with a secret level warp... without using breakable walls.

What do you mean...have the exit room have orbs in it that change what level you go to but don't let the player know?

Game on,


Could work i guess... I'll attactch my idea as a hold as soon as i can. (Different idea)
07-08-2003 at 07:07 PM
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Daisai
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I like level 9! Someone make more puzzles like that!

Gah! < shudders >

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08-08-2003 at 06:11 AM
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DiMono
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I'm all in for creating entire levels. Hell, I might make an entire dungeon when it's practical. Dumb question: if people are already making levels, where's the appropriate download for me to start practicing? It's not on the Downloads page, and I'm all excited about this now.

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09-17-2003 at 05:10 PM
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Oneiromancer
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They're mostly in the Architecture section on these boards, if you haven't found them yet. None of them are totally completed yet (as it should be, since we're still in beta) but there's a lot of good new ideas there. There might still be some leftover in the Bugs board if they weren't moved over when the new board was created.

Game on,

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09-17-2003 at 05:35 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Oh, wait, did you mean where is the download so you can actually make levels yourself? Go to the Bugs board and look for (right now) Build 45 Release Candidate. There's a link there so you can download the Architect's Edition. Sorry I misinterpreted your question.

Game on,

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09-17-2003 at 05:38 PM
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DiMono
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Don't worry, I'll let you off the hook... this time... :cigar

and thanks, though I'm visiting the forums in all the wrong order and just left a message in that thread asking what the link was to, since I'm not in a position to download right now

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09-17-2003 at 09:28 PM
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Drizzo
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Since I heard of the Architect's edition 4 days ago now, I've been trying to think of a way to do a room such that you placed a mimic, and at the same time released a horde of monsters on yourself, yet if you ignored the monsters and just did whatever tasks the mimic was necessary to do, Beethro would carve up the monsters easily... or vice versa of course, but I think there's greater likelihood of variation in the monster killing, although ideally, the monster horde would seem very hard to kill, and the mimic tasks relatively easy (or more obvious what was necessary) yet have the same keystrokes... I haven't decided how I would go about doing this yet, but I haven't played around in the editor much yet either, so I've been sorting it out in my head which doesn't allow for much concrete testing.

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03-05-2004 at 03:21 PM
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DiMono
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Do you mean that the same step both triggers a mimic potion, and releases monsters? If this is what you mean, the easiest way I can think of to emulate this is to put a mimic potion on a trapdoor, and put the monsters behind red doors, with no other trapdoors on the screen. As soon as Beethro steps off the trapdoor, the red doors drop, and the horde is released.

Hope this helps, and I look forward to checking out your horde... I mean hold.

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03-05-2004 at 03:27 PM
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Drizzo
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well, that's one way, although that was the easy part of my problem... I was thinking an orb in both sections that needed to be hit from the one spot you could place the mimic that would do you any good, that way you could release the horde from multiple directions, leading more to a Beethro's Dance of Death type fight, cuz if the horde only comes from one direction it's a lot more systematic and easy to fight them, and thus makes the whole thing cooler... I've gotten some sleep now, though, so I guess I can start trying to make this room, although I guarantee it'll take longer to make than it will to solve...


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03-05-2004 at 09:13 PM
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DiMono
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That is something I've noticed in my recent dungeon-making exploits. I've spent my recent room creation time making similar rooms, and I have a suggestion for you based on my recent experience:

Figure out how the first section of the room is supposed to go, say those within five squares of Beethro (or the orb(s), or whatever), make it perfect, and then figure out when you want the next wave to get to what square, and so on. This seems tedious, but once you get in to your groove it's actually pretty routine.

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03-05-2004 at 09:52 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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Here's another challenge for you. Without looking at Deep V (because that's where the answer is found) create a room with a large open space with a lot of serpents in it, and, in the center of it, have a bunch of walls/orbs/whatever in a device that can only be *ever* used to trap *one* serpent.

It must be smaller than, say, 10x10.

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03-05-2004 at 11:10 PM
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