azb
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File: DROD JtRH Tutorial.hold (24.9 KB)
Downloaded 7 times.
License: Public Domain

This hold is like my DROD: AE Tutorial, but for all the elements in DROD 2.0 instead of DROD 1.0, so expect more types of obstacles and more than one floor type in the presentation, but I didn't use scripted characters because as I specified they usually don't affect the gameplay in any major way, they are usually only used for story purposes like conversation/speech.

09/04/2024 UPDATE:

* Fixed various inaccuracies and unintended solutions throughout the hold.

11/06/2024 UPDATE:

* Fixed rooms being too identical to the AE tutorial.

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[Last edited by azb at 11-06-2024 02:34 PM : 11/06/2024 Fix]

azb
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Okay, all of the fixes to the AE version I applied to this one as well just now.

azb
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Now that the AE tutorial is a fully finished and published hold on the Holds board, does anyone have any comments on anything that needs fixing in this tutorial?

I already fixed the backtracking issues after the AE Edition got commented on having backtracking issues, and I initially forgot to clarify the difference between tar and mud mothers when you stab them on their tarstuff (like how tar mothers will always remove the tar underneath but the same is not true for mud mothes and the mud underneath), but I fixed that just now as well.

Nuntar
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Monsters and Elements 6S1W: Third scroll could mention that monster can move onto a tunnel to kill you. Fourth scroll: "move on a tunnel" should be "move off a tunnel".

8S1W: Demonstration chamber (which is an excellent idea) would be better with two seep, one in an oblong chamber so it prefers horizontal. At the moment, the player only gets to see seep preferring vertical, which doesn't really show that they are different from roaches.

Advanced Elements and Techniques 6S: Solvable without the decoy. Up to you how much that matters.

7S: Last scroll should state that there's an arrow under it.

7S1E: Scroll is misleading. For the corner kill, your sword should be at right angles to the Slayer's hook, not opposite. More specifically: get the Slayer near the corner and facing diagonally away from it, then face at right angles to him and approach him so that your sword and his hook are between you.

Brain Drain 7S3W: Tunnels are not needed.

7S2W: Honestly this room doesn't need the red door + evil eye to make its point.

7S4W: I managed the kill here, but I don't think it's easy. Maybe give more specific instructions? Or wait for more feedback.

8S4W: Too many trapdoors; could cut the lower half without losing anything.

2S: Scroll is confusing, when the room itself shows brained golems going around obstacles! The actual difference between brained roach and brained golem behaviour is that roaches (and roach-likes) will consider other moves if their first-choice move is blocked (e.g. by a monster); golems will not. You could show this with a chamber containing golems stuck on brains and a roach moving through an identical chamber, maybe?

3S: This is not at all true -- brained seep have unique and very complicated behaviour. The main thing to know is that seep path across both wall and floor, so they will try to get as close to you as they can even if they can't reach you.

Final Homestand Entrance: Spiders become visible if you're within 2 tiles, not 5.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 09-05-2024 06:23 AM]

azb
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All awesome and helpful feedback as always!

azb
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I made the revisions in the appropriate rooms in the TCB tutorial as well, but will wait for this hold to be published officially on the Holds board before asking for commentary on the TCB tutorial, to keep things neat and in logical/coherent order.

azb
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When I submitted this hold for approval at first, it was rejected due to it breaking the rule of "no duplicate rooms from other holds"; now I fixed that to the best of my ability for all the rooms that carried over from the AE tutorial.

Nuntar
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Just a small point -- last scroll in Basic Movement 1S1W says "broken orbs" when you mean "broken walls".

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

azb
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Awesome! Will fix that - definitely not intentional.

kieranmillar
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The Hold Admins have been discussing these tutorial holds for a while and we've come to the decision to reject them. The following applies to the TCB and GatEB tutorial holds too.

We take issue with the fact that they violate the spirit of guideline 2: Duplicate rooms that aren't different enough. Essentially the JtRH, TCB and GatEB tutorials bundle in all the rooms of the previous tutorial.

While you have made changes based on the previous rejection where these duplicate rooms were totally identical, we feel the minor changes made this time are too trivial to count, like you're trying to circumvent the rules on a technicality rather than abide by the spirit of them. Players may have already played the tutorial rooms in the previous hold and we don't feel it's right that if they want to complete these holds then they have to repeat these rooms, potentially up to 4 times.

We won't be accepting further trivial changes to these rooms to try and get around this. You have 3 options:

1) Remove the duplicated rooms, only including rooms tutorialising the new elements, and ask players to play the earlier hold if they want the tutorials for those elements. You are free to resubmit after doing so.

2) Attach these holds in a reply to your AE tutorial on the Holds board, which will let you keep them together and in their current form but leaving only one of them on CaravelNet.

3) Don't promote the remaining holds, leaving them in Architecture.

azb
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Okay. I will stick with option 3, because I already have tutorial with every single element for DROD 5.0, the version most people play nowawdays, anyway, in Architecture with all my rooms made from the ground up.