Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
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http://crystalshard.net/test/SubTerra.exe
http://crystalshard.net/test/SubTwo.exe

These are the speedfixed versions of ST and ST2, respectively. This is just the executable, you'll have to add this to an existent installation for it to work. Please let me know if this fixes the speed issues on newer computers!

The game may play slightly slower than you're used to. You can change this in the configuration screen. Let me know if the slowest setting is slow enough, and if the fastest setting is fast enough.

____________________________
= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

From the previous versions, changing the gamespeed seemed to have very little effect, but now the difference between 1 and 9 is very apparent. That's good.

There seems to a be a bit of a difference between fullscreen and windowed mode, but that might just be my perception. I find that maximum speed is just a touch slower than what I am used to, and even a speed of 5 seems slow and unplayable.

Also, I noticed that in windowed mode for the options screen, the buttons have a purple and black style to them, while in fullscreen they have a blue and green style. Also in windowed mode, the buttons don't quite match up with the text.

It seems to have fixed the erratic speed, but I haven't been able to test or confirm this yet.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

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[Last edited by Danjen02 at 03-28-2009 08:15 PM]

Radiant
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Rank Points: 142
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Danjen02 wrote:
Also in windowed mode, the buttons don't quite match up with the text.

Please post a screenshot of that.


____________________________
= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

File: ConfigScrnshot.png (208.4 KB)
Downloaded 47 times.
License: Public Domain

It appears that the transparency thing you placed over the crystal shard logo only stretches halfway across the window. (what's the game's resolution, 640x480?)

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

I replaced the executables with the ones posted, and I'm getting

[FileErr] Error reading library file.
The data file seems to be corrupted or missing.
You should download and reinstall the game.

whenever I start up either one. Am I supposed to do something else?

Edit: I reinstalled Subterra into another directory, and replaced the existing SubTerra.dat file with the reinstalled one, and it works now. Weird.

Edit 2: Somehow, I've lost my player config for Subterra 1, which is weird (not to mention annoying). What I did was:
1. Replace SubTerra.dat (I started up SubTerra after that and my config was still there)
2. Try running a level from the desktop straight to Subterra (it gave me that FileErr message, despite it working every other time)
3. Run SubTerra normally. At this point, my config was gone.

My config for Subterra 2 is still intact, despite running the above steps for S2 as well.

Oh, and having the description for subterra as "Subterra II" can be a bit confusing, especially when selecting a program to automatically open SUB levels with - there are two "Subterra II"'s on the list.

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[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 03-29-2009 05:58 AM]

Radiant
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Danjen02 wrote:
It appears that the transparency thing you placed over the crystal shard logo only stretches halfway across the window. (what's the game's resolution, 640x480?)

800x600.

The problem you're seeing is a mismatch in color depth (the game is 16-bit, and I assume your desktop is 32-bit). I'll fix that.

The Stew Boy wrote:
Edit: I reinstalled Subterra into another directory, and replaced the existing SubTerra.dat file with the reinstalled one, and it works now. Weird.

You probably had a somewhat older version, hence the game data library mismatched.

Somehow, I've lost my player config for Subterra 1, which is weird (not to mention annoying).

Ok, that's pretty bad.

But you have two instances of SubTerra on your hard disk now, right? Can you do a file search for player.cfg and see what that turns up?

Oh, and having the description for subterra as "Subterra II" can be a bit confusing,

Good point.

____________________________
= Radiant =

Radiant
Level: Moderator

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Okay, so can anyone please confirm (or disprove) that this fixes the speed problems? Thank you.

____________________________
= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
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I've been playing around with ST1 a bit, and have noticed no erratic behavior since. It has not been extensively tested, though.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

wonkyth
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 06-18-2007
IP: Logged

I've done as much of a test that five minutes allows, and it seems to have fixed the speed problem, both in the editor and in the game.
However, the new speed does seem to be slower than it should be.
I have it set on speed 6(Default), and it's slow enough that you can easily spot the individual frames in an explosion. Haven't tried other speeds or accessing levels different ways, but that's all I really have time for today.

Anyway, I'd rather a slower speed than a faster one, quite often I play on speed one anyway, for maximum results.

____________________________
"Satire denounces the world;
Wit penetrates it;
Humour accepts it;
But Nonsense Transforms it"
- Cedric Whitman
w.r.t. Aristophanes

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

I've still got a speed problem. I think that when in the editor, when I zoom out, move around a bit and zoom in, then test, the game goes a bit faster than it should. Then, when I start placing objects normally, and save, the game goes fine.
I've experienced the game going quite fast though, and I'm not sure what causes that.

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

In the editor in windowed mode, holding shift and wiggling the mouse will cause the game to lag behind a couple of seconds.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

---

[Last edited by Danjen02 at 04-04-2009 06:31 PM]

wonkyth
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 06-18-2007
IP: Logged

Sometimes I wonder how you manage to find bugs like that...

____________________________
"Satire denounces the world;
Wit penetrates it;
Humour accepts it;
But Nonsense Transforms it"
- Cedric Whitman
w.r.t. Aristophanes

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

With the new ST1, my only complaint so far is that the game now runs too slow; I have to set the speed at 9.

With the new ST2, the game crashes almost instantly, and I get this message:

[FileErr] Error reading library file.
The data file seems to be corrupted or missing.
You should download and reinstall the game.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

Wonkyth wrote:
Sometimes I wonder how you manage to find bugs like that...

Shift-click is the editor hotkey to change the object you're using to the one you click on. It saves a bit of time when selecting objects. I just happened to be holding down shift the entire time and noticed the game chugging.

The Mystic wrote:
With the new ST1, my only complaint so far is that the game now runs too slow; I have to set the speed at 9.

For me, I find that in fullscreen it runs pretty fast, but in windowed mode it is a bit slower than normal (I've gotten used to the new speed, anyways ).

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

The Stew Boy wrote:
I've still got a speed problem.

This is rather odd... what kind of computer are you running on?

Danjen02 wrote:
In the editor in windowed mode, holding shift and wiggling the mouse will cause the game to lag behind a couple of seconds.

I can reproduce that, but I have no idea what causes it. It could be some quirk in windows that tries to select something with shift+drag, even. I doubt it would bother anyone, though.

The Mystic wrote:
With the new ST1, my only complaint so far is that the game now runs too slow;

I'll speed up the settings a bit.

With the new ST2, the game crashes almost instantly, and I get this message:

This sounds like a version mismatch. Have you tried downloading the latest ST2?

____________________________
= Radiant =

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
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The speed improvements are most noticeable in windowed mode. The original program was awful in windowed mode, playing relatively fast most of the time and insanely fast whenever you were zoomed out in the editor.
However, the speed fix is horrendously slow.

I tried fullscreen mode and noticed some things. There was a big difference between Gamespeed 1 and 9, much bigger than in windowed mode. But the crossfade effects were very annoying and time consuming... I don't remember these being here. In gameplay, I noticed some inconsistencies in speed.


So I went to go check Fullscreen in the old binary (which I haven't tried at all since you came out with windowed mode) and it was a pleasure. It doesn't speed up if I test when zoomed out (it does if I test within a second of zooming back in, though). The default Gamespeed of 6 was perfect, providing me with full control and reaction time without any choppiness. There was a great difference between the different Gamespeeds, ranging from the speed tectonic plates move at to almost as fast as Windowed mode is when testing a zoomed out level (which is really fast). And I haven't tested it much, but the speed seemed to be very consistent.


In other words, IMO, Fullscreen mode used to be fine (but it did speed up if you tested a level within a second of zooming in). Windowed mode was really broken, though. I'm not sure how well you may be able to fix it without breaking Fullscreen...

I have an idea that maybe you can try. I implore people who haven't done much with Fullscreen mode on the old SubTerra.exe to try it. If other people agree that it's better, maybe you can tune this speed fix for Windowed, and then use two separate executables for SubTerra (start with the fixed-speed windowed one, then if the player chooses Yes for going to Fullscreen, it terminates the windowed app and loads the old binary as Fullscreen). The full installed package will only be about .5MB larger, and we'll get good gameplay in both Fullscreen and windowed. What do you think?


By the way, I see that you've linked to the SubTerra download page mentioning the speed fix (indicating that you released it), but the page still has the pre-speed-fix version numbers.

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 04-05-2009 05:52 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Kwakstur wrote:
In other words, IMO, Fullscreen mode used to be fine (but it did speed up if you tested a level within a second of zooming in). Windowed mode was really broken, though. I'm not sure how well you may be able to fix it without breaking Fullscreen...

Thanks for your feedback. Actually that's easy. if (fullscreen == true) { use old method; } else { use new method; }

By the way, I see that you've linked to the SubTerra download page mentioning the speed fix (indicating that you released it), but the page still has the pre-speed-fix version numbers.

This page? Looks fine to me. Or did you mean another page?


____________________________
= Radiant =

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

Are you sure? I see v2.5 and v1.3. The speed fix here has the version numbers v2.6 and v1.4.

Edit: Okay, never mind, it's fixed after I manually clear the cache. I guess I'm still used to IE7, which could be set to handle it automatically.

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 04-05-2009 10:36 PM]

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:

The Mystic wrote:
With the new ST2, the game crashes almost instantly, and I get this message:

This sounds like a version mismatch. Have you tried downloading the latest ST2?

I just downloaded the latest version of ST2 from your site; I'll check it out either later this evening or tomorrow.

EDIT: ST2 works fine now with the new version.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

---

[Last edited by The Mystic at 04-06-2009 09:36 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Kwakstur - can you try this version and see if it works for you?

http://crystalshard.net/test/SubTerra.exe

____________________________
= Radiant =

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

After fairly thoroughly testing the speed settings in both games, I've concluded that setting 9 in the old versions and setting 1 in the new versions are a good maximum and minimum, at least for me.

Radiant - I didn't test the version you put in your last post.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

---

[Last edited by The Mystic at 04-08-2009 06:15 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

The Mystic wrote:
After fairly thoroughly testing the speed settings in both games, I've concluded that setting 9 in the old versions and setting 1 in the new versions are a good maximum and minimum, at least for me.

Thank you, but your princess is... er... I mean, thank you but I'm afraid that the new version uses a different scale so the two don't compare well. What is your opinion of setting 9 in the new version?


____________________________
= Radiant =

Kwakstur
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 385
Registered: 05-05-2006
IP: Logged

I tried the new version and the More... thing is working now. Also very glad you sorted out the "SubTerra II" misnomer. My comments on the speed:

Fullscreen mode: 6 was a pretty good speed. 1&2 were definitely good for a minimum speed. 9 was way too fast to control the player. 8 seemed like a pretty good 9, but it didn't feel consistent; maybe it was another program eating up my CPU, but when I used 8, there were a few little skips.

Windowed mode: 6 was too slow. 9 was the perfect 6. Even 7 and 8 seemed a little choppy and slow. But when I played a level with lots of onscreen objects (like the intro level for the 2002 contest), even speed 9 would slow down as SubTerra started maxing out my CPU.
But note that my machine isn't exactly equipped for PC games. I have 384MB RAM and a quad-core 1.69GHz CPU, so sometimes slowdown is inevitable for me.

____________________________
Also known as ExpHP everywhere else.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 04-08-2009 09:56 PM]

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:What is your opinion of setting 9 in the new version?

That's "normal" speed; this is true for the new versions of both ST1 and ST2.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.