ClaytonW wrote:
I was just wondering if I should remake room 2:1S, The Growing Tar Maze that everyone posts about. I have no problem with doing so if there's a majority of people that want it gone.

ErikH2000 wrote:

ClaytonW wrote:
I was just wondering if I should remake room 2:1S, The Growing Tar Maze that everyone posts about. I have no problem with doing so if there's a majority of people that want it gone.

There is one good lynchpin in the tar maze that I liked:

Click here to view the secret text

×
You have to wait for the tar mother to grow so that spaces you cleared are refilled.

I think you could make a good puzzle with a much shorter route, and design it so that the lynchpin must be discovered. I don't think any puzzle is worth taping a ziploc bag to the screen. (I actually just took notes about the path, but I did think about the ziploc bag for a bit.)

But at least make the thing much less time-consuming. 15 minutes of trial and error is bearable, but not an hour.

My official vote is "No", assuming the room is fixed. But if you didn't want to change the room, I would vote "yes", yank the thing out.

-Erik

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Sometimes, having a mother in a maze is good, because if you get yourself trapped, the tar will grow and then you can get out.

Oneiromancer wrote:
We should notify some psychologists about this thread. I vote to drop it, unless it is changed. Erik votes to keep it, unless it isn't changed. Same idea, different words. Fundamental difference in personal philosophy, like half full and half empty glasses? Or am I just reading too much into this?

Schik wrote:
I don't think you shouldn't not get rid of it assuming you don't not change it.

StuartK wrote:
I don't think Schik doesn't make absolutely no nonsense there.

ClaytonW wrote:
Take a look at the attached picture. How does that look to everyone?

ClaytonW wrote:
Take a look at the attached picture. How does that look to everyone?

Oneiromancer wrote:

It looks pretty cool, but how does it play? I think we all appreciate a good challenge (just not an annoying and tedious one); does this new layout make the solution trivial? Can you release a mini-hold with just this room so we can playtest it?

ClaytonW wrote:
Attached is a mini-hold with four designs of the same room. Let me know what you think.

2:1S of death!

×1) The maze is revealed to start off with, so the whole solution can just be memorised/noted down before the tar grows back in. Some might have a problem with remembering 11 numbers though For those who just rush in, it might present a reasonable challenge.

How about covering the maze, and putting 'clue' arrows all the way around the edge, to indicate where the corridors are? Might be good for a slightly more complex maze, so there's 5+ arrows on each edge, some possibly facing each other... Reducing, but not completely eliminating trial and error. Might be too easy...

2) Too many tight corners too soon IMO - giving away your secret surprise before you even get going. So, lots of waiting for tar to grow, and no checkpoints, so a mistake means a restart. I can usually muddle through for a while before getting trapped (I'm trying to complete these without notes) This is more difficult than the original maze, and revealing part of the maze (on it's own) doesn't make much of a difference here. Especially since the bits you're revealing are in part false avenues. Perhaps keep the parts that are not the actual solution hidden, so Beethro can only stumble upon them. I'd like to see this one with checkpoints

3) Similar to the original room, but more tight corners, and too soon again. Lead us into it, and... checkpoints please

4) Try not putting the checkpoints a rigid 10 squares apart, since that will, as you say, lead to awkward situations. Also, a checkpoint on the wrong path basically means an instadeath (red herring of the worst kind) If the player realises he's made a mistake before he gets trapped, he'd have a difficult time retracing his steps to a 'good' checkpoint. Earlier checkpoints are available by the restore menu I guess, but coming out of the hold to use restore is not a nice way to solve a room. If the player doesn't realise he's trapped on the wrong route, he'll have to restart, and then perhaps make exactly the same mistakes all over again.

ClaytonW wrote:
Alright fellas. Try this one. Unless it gets horrible reviews, the attached file is what I'm going to use in Claythro Tower, Level 2: 1 South. It's the best alternative I could come up with.

I don't think its trivial at all, I don't think its nearly as difficult as its predecessors.

Oneiromancer wrote:
Here's my modifications to the hold. I added a little more tar...I don't know if what I did makes it too much harder or just right. I definitely died a few times playtesting my changes, but the best improvement about your new room (even with my changes) is that the player has more of a feeling of accomplishment, like "okay, I screwed that up, but I know what I did wrong, and I can do better next time" and then they actually do better the next time, instead of worse (usually).

Edit: I am also pleased with your force arrow placement, but I made some changes so after Beethro goes through an arrow section, he can at least move back onto the last arrow. This gives a little more freedom in carving out the tar. I think I did it correctly so that you can't accidentally skip ahead (I tested them thoroughly, I think). But it's a small suggestion, feel free to change it back.