googa
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 282
Registered: 09-20-2004
IP: Logged

I forgot the fact that to be a stepping game, you must have a main character that moves first, otherwise it'll be just a turn-based game.

if could make a working version of a turn based fps, which is actually fun and playable, you would be a bloody genius. (i am currently trying to imagine ut2004 turn based, with great difficulty)

I don't know if a fun stepping FPS can be done, but it's certainly fun to imagine how to transform any cool game I played in my life into a stepping or turn-based game. It's a challenging fun exercise.

---

[Last edited by googa at 03-13-2006 04:23 PM]

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3308
Registered: 07-05-2004
IP: Logged

googa wrote:
I don't know if a fun stepping FPS can be done, but it's certainly fun to imagine how to transform any cool game I played in my life into a stepping or turn-based game. It's a challenging fun exercise.

One that comes into my mind is Doom RPG. They call it a "first person turn-based role playing game". I've not tried it not being a huge fan of mobile games myself, but I've heard some good stuff about it.

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

googa wrote:
About three years ago, I heard about a game called DROD, on http://www.the-underdogs.org/ which changed the way I’ll make games for the rest of my life. I liked it so much, that I’ll never make a real-time game again.

Preach it, brother! Hey, I hope you will end up getting Wonderquest on Underdogs and in other places as well once you've finalized it. The game deserves a little exposure!

I was also thinking about this new way to see games. Every single one of them. What about a stepping FPS? Doable? Yes.

I think so. In a way, your archer character in Wonderquest already implements a third-person shooter. I think there are disadvantages of a 3D first-person view to convey information about your situation, and it's better suited to a visceral instead of contemplative game. But who knows? You or somebody else might come up with some beautiful interface that makes it all perfect.

What about a stepping Street Fighter? Mouth watering, huh?

Yeah, I've thought about that a tiny bit earlier and it seemed interesting. Especially when you consider that a lot of the strategy in these games is lost on most people because everything is moving so fast. Different moves could have varying range, damage, vulnerability exposure, and open up other moves. Choosing moves in a paused state, perhaps while your character is in the air midway through a jump, could be really fascinating.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
IP: Logged

When I read this talk about "stepping games", I thought you meant something else...

A: "Look! I'm playing this stepping game, with lots of arrows! It's called ..."
B: "Dance Dance Revolution, isn't it? Great game."

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

-- Tim

____________________________
The best way to lose customers is to let little kids running loose on a forum with too many mod points.

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Bombadil wrote:
Are you talking seriously here? Is this a project of yours? Where can I find more info about it?

No. However, it's an interesting idea, and I'm curious to think how it'd work.

you could always try for a RPG without *Elves*

Or I could wait for Mother 3 to be translated. Everybody play Earthbound already!

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

John259
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 57
Registered: 11-18-2005
IP: Logged

Just for the record, there is an RPG without Elves or magic of any kind, namely Mount & Blade. - John

____________________________
2006 A DROD Odyssey: "Open the pod bay doors Halph" - "Not possible!"

Alneyan
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 622
Registered: 07-06-2004
IP: Logged

John259 wrote:
Just for the record, there is an RPG without Elves or magic of any kind, namely Mount & Blade. - John

Thank Erik there are some; Elves are merely present in, say, 95% of all RPGs, but some do escape the Elven madness. Wasteland, the Fallouts, perhaps Planescape Torment (there *might* be an Elf or two that pops up, though), Albion, the whole of Avernum/Geneforge, and probably a few others.

NekoIncardine
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 127
Registered: 08-23-2005
IP: Logged

Hrm...

Metal Gear AC!D is turn based, but could easily be reimagined as a stepping game. I'm not going to spend a long time on this (I have another thread I'm going to spend a long time on here :O), but it's easy enough to think of - just replace the Delay system with 'you move guards move your next turn starts' in one rapid burst.

____________________________
The secret to using a sword is that you hit people with the sharp end and then they die.

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

googa wrote:
I forgot the fact that to be a stepping game, you must have a main character that moves first, otherwise it'll be just a turn-based game.

if could make a working version of a turn based fps, which is actually fun and playable, you would be a bloody genius. (i am currently trying to imagine ut2004 turn based, with great difficulty)

I don't know if a fun stepping FPS can be done, but it's certainly fun to imagine how to transform any cool game I played in my life into a stepping or turn-based game. It's a challenging fun exercise.

Is this a case of shoot first, ask questions later ?

googa
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 282
Registered: 09-20-2004
IP: Logged

Humm... yeah!

.. and it worked!

quote:

I was also thinking about this new way to see games. Every single one of them. What about a stepping FPS? Doable? Yes.

quote:

I think so. In a way, your archer character in Wonderquest already implements a third-person shooter. I think there are disadvantages of a 3D first-person view to convey information about your situation, and it's better suited to a visceral instead of contemplative game. But who knows? You or somebody else might come up with some beautiful interface that makes it all perfect.

I'm just wondering who'll be the crazy guy that will start a project like this.

Maybe a portable or a simple java game..

---

[Last edited by googa at 03-22-2006 10:15 PM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
IP: Logged

Well, if someone does the gfx, I'll gladly do the engine.

Isn't this just a case of a "fighting fantasy" dice roll combat scenes with 3d in it ?

googa
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 282
Registered: 09-20-2004
IP: Logged

Imagine a 3D first person DROD.

The world is divided in a square grid.

Now we have the height factor(Because of 3D). So player input could be like:

Move right, front, back, etc. (no mouse usage)

also: shoot, aim up, aim down, reload, throw grenade, etc.

You could aim up or down in five different angles. targeting the enemy is up to you.

All of this following the stepping principle.

You see a guy up in a tree. You need to make some decisions. should I move to hide myself? Should I aim up to try to kill him. How prepared is him to counter-attack? If I aim up, can I aim down in time to kill the other guy that will spot me.

I hope someone understand me, this could be an idea.

Well, if someone does the gfx, I'll gladly do the engine.

I promised the guys in my band that I won't start a new game project this year. We have a lot to rehearse.

---

[Last edited by googa at 03-23-2006 03:46 AM]

techant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 854
Registered: 06-08-2004
IP: Logged

Doom wrote:
I can see the holds on the holds board, but don't see them in-game. Am I doing something wrong or are they not available just yet?

I got everything but "Halph Stories" from within my game but this one is not there. Any suggestions?



____________________________
DROD RPG Released!! You must try it out it is Great!!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

googa wrote:
Imagine a 3D first person DROD.

The world is divided in a square grid.

Now we have the height factor(Because of 3D). So player input could be like:

Move right, front, back, etc. (no mouse usage)

also: shoot, aim up, aim down, reload, throw grenade, etc.

You could aim up or down in five different angles. targeting the enemy is up to you.

All of this following the stepping principle.

You see a guy up in a tree. You need to make some decisions. should I move to hide myself? Should I aim up to try to kill him. How prepared is him to counter-attack? If I aim up, can I aim down in time to kill the other guy that will spot me.

I hope someone understand me, this could be an idea.

Well, if someone does the gfx, I'll gladly do the engine.

I promised the guys in my band that I won't start a new game project this year. We have a lot to rehearse.

yes, you could do that, but wouldn't a 3rd person view be much better?

if you are really set on thinking up a turn based fps, i would like to point out the following.

the only times a FP view is better than any other is when
A) the user has to see things over long distances, and be 100% accurate.
B) close quarters fighting where you need pinpoint accuracy.

the problems with the FP view is it is restrictive, and it can give people VIMS (video-induced-motion-sickness).

so if you where to do this, you would indefinatly have to have squadmates, and a certain degree of freedom.

Tuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1548
Registered: 02-22-2003
IP: Logged

techant wrote:
I got everything but "Halph Stories" from within my game but this one is not there. Any suggestions?

The hold isn't called "Halph Stories". Look for "Halph Has a Bad Day" and "Beethro and the Secret Society".

techant
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 854
Registered: 06-08-2004
IP: Logged

Tuttle wrote:

techant wrote:
I got everything but "Halph Stories" from within my game but this one is not there. Any suggestions?

The hold isn't called "Halph Stories". Look for "Halph Has a Bad Day" and "Beethro and the Secret Society".

OK I found those. I guess it just sounded like that was the name of the hold, thanks.

____________________________
DROD RPG Released!! You must try it out it is Great!!

googa
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 282
Registered: 09-20-2004
IP: Logged

yes, you could do that, but wouldn't a 3rd person view be much better?

Certainly NiroZ. I'm just being a bit stubborn, trying to make a working first person 3D.

You could have a free camera rotation with the mouse, with a fixed weapon direction. (Like Tomb Raider). The only way to target enemies would be moving, rotating, or aiming up or down. (Stepping principles).

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

Alneyan wrote:
Thank Erik there are some; Elves are merely present in, say, 95% of all RPGs, but some do escape the Elven madness. Wasteland, the Fallouts, perhaps Planescape Torment (there *might* be an Elf or two that pops up, though), Albion, the whole of Avernum/Geneforge, and probably a few others.

Some of the Final Fantasy games lack elves (not going to try to say definitively which ones, especially since a few have things that are elf-like but not officially elves).

Also, Pokemon. And Xenosaga. And the most recent Arc the Lad and Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (I imagine the others have elves though?). And almost any futuristic RPG, whether computer, console, or pen and paper (except obviously Shadowrun).

If you want to go really old-school, I don't think Legacy of the Ancients had elves.

Thats all the popped to mind just now, but the point is there are more out there than the first reaction suggests.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

I like to play the reinvention card - you have 'elves', but you get to the heart of why there are so many elves in fantasy. Once you notice that something is a cliche, it's possible to work past it. I reckon that elves are basically uber-humans that are inexplicably willing to get along with humanity, sort of like a big brother. You can certainly play with that.

The one that annoys me more than elves is dragons. They get into a story, and they basically take it over (see: Warcraft). The human-dragon relationship, to me, is sort of like the animal-human relationship, so usually if I'm writing dragons I make them basically like humans are with animals. Including the occasional PETH member, which is really good fun.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

Mattcrampy wrote:
so usually if I'm writing dragons I make them basically like humans are with animals. Including the occasional PETH member, which is really good fun.

Wouldn't that be DETH?

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

Yeah, but then they'd sound like they were goths.

And anyway, the dragons refering to themselves as 'people' has an interesting lexigraphical meaning - 'people' doesn't quite mean the same thing as 'human', and it's my bet for the word grandfathered in to refer to sentient creatures collectively when it's not all humans. Plus it also sounds like a vague putdown.

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?