Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

Ever spend a good 20 minutes making the right moves on a level, then at the very last second, you go up instead of down? Dont want to have to repeat it ALL over again?

I never would have played as much as i have (im on the 16th dungeon now) if i had not made this little program. What it does is records your moves, and allows you to play them back. You can also remove some moves from the end, for example, you realize that some 10 moves back you made a mistake. Just remove the last 20, restart the level, have the program play the moves back, and then try again.

The program i have made is totally in an alpha stage, as i made it just for myself. Would anybody be interested in using it? Should i bother fixing it up a bit? let me know what you think!

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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Sure, keep us up to date.

For the most part I like anything that gives the player more freedom.

I wish players could have:
Unlimited undo
Save anywhere
View demos before completing room
Skip room

Of course the idea of DROD is to enjoy solving rooms so hopefully players would use discretion on employing these options.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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So...are you playing in the Architect's Edition then? Because in all 2.0 versions, there is an Undo key that lets you take back the last move you've made. Not that people haven't been clamoring for what you're offering for a long time now, but just in case you didn't know about the feature in the newer versions...it certainly mitigates the advertisement in your first two sentences.

I doubt I'd ever use this, but I'm curious what other people would think. Now that the high scores exist, people might be less willing to have something like this "officially" around.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

you know, to be honest, i dont know what version im using. i know it says 'architect edition'. *shrug*. Currently, all it does is records the keystrokes (the 9 movements, or the two sword swing directions) into a text file. When you hit the 'play' button, it simply dumps out the text files keystrokes into the DROD window at a rate of like 10 a second.

I dont know how these stats in the newer versions work, but i hope you would be able to notice with them whether or not somebody completed the dungeon in 20 seconds, or in 20 minutes.

A few problems i can foresee though: I am using autoit to program it. This can be found at www.autoitscript.com. The only way you can tell what keys are being pressed is if you assign each to a hotkey. It would be hard to program the thing so that uses can change what keys they use... as in, i have to HARDCODE it to use WASD, like i use. I cannot (easily) set it up so that users can specify what keys they use. *shrug*

The more i think about this, the more limitations i realize it will have lol. Atleast the way i have it right now, say somebody is having a problem on a specific level. Somebody else could record a demo (or just a few steps of) the level, and then send over the text file, and the other person could run it. i dont know. Just wondering if i should bother fixing the program up for others to use.

Also, i use WASD (w up, s down, x wait, diagonals should be obvious), and then the left and right arrows to do all my movements. What do other people use?

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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If it says "Architects Edition" then, strangely enough, you are using the Architects Edition. That is the earlier version of the game, which is totally free (not the earliest, but the one just before the newest one). The new version has a free engine, with a free editor, but you have to pay for the premium holds and art and there's also a subscription-based service with more features, such as high scores. But you can still use the basic and free 2.0 version to play all the user-made holds, and therefore use the Undo feature. www.caravelgames.com and drod.caravelgames.com explains a lot of this.

There's a whole thread around here somewhere dedicated to what keys people use for playing DROD. In general most people use the numpad, I think, since it is the default, and then QW for rotating the sword is definitely the standard.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

www.freewebs.com/lemures/DROD_helper.rar

There we go.

In there, there is a confusing readme file, an exe, and an au3. I made the program with autoit, which are .au3 files, and then i compiled it into the .exe. If you dont trust the exe, go get autoit and compile the program yourself, but if you are lazy and trusting, just run the exe.

let me know what you guys think. obviously, its not done, but this is more of a demo of what could be made. (i wrote it in 3 hours, so its not even close to a finalized product)



Comments please!

Stefan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2119
Registered: 05-25-2004
IP: Logged

How about moving this thread to the Development board?

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0.099³

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

Any way i could post something in general that says this is here? It looks like not many people check this particular forum, indeed, i myself did not either until just now. I dont think i will get much feedback, and i also dont understand how this is in development. This has nothing to do with developing DROD. *shrug*

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Just put a link to this thread in your signature or something. Then whenever you post elsewhere, it will direct people here. Any thread you post in the General forum would eventually get pushed down to a later page anyway, so eventually people wouldn't see it anymore unless it gets bumped, which is borderline spamming. At least in this board, it will stay on the first page for a long time.

If you look around this particular board, you will see that all user-made programs and modifications go here. So it is a very appropriate place for this topic.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

I had not realized, I apologize.

What does everyone think? Has anyone even tried it?

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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It looks like it won't work for me in the current form at least since I prefer a different DROD key mapping.

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

what key config do you use?

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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L is wait w/ IOPK;,./ movement
N,M are sword

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

ah. not sure if the program works well with symbols. i wont get a chance to mess with it for a few days, but if you are interested, im sure i can make a version for you.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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If you make it, I'll try it.

Also, I'm using JTRH so we'll see how that works.
Not to mention, I use "sticky keys" so I doubt there'll be any practical way for me to simulate holding down the Alt for multiple keypresses.


Maybe some day we'll get unlimited undo/saves.. then again, probably not!

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
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Well as an aside, even in JTRH, there's a one move mistake impossible to undo. Every once in a while, especially in rooms that only give you a mimic potion and minimal space right by the entrance to use it in, I'll accidentally leave a room when I'm about to finish it. Its very much more frustrating than a clean loss, since normally just one key would have fixed it 100%.

(I assume that this is unfixable, codewise?)

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Beef Row wrote:
Well as an aside, even in JTRH, there's a one move mistake impossible to undo. Every once in a while, especially in rooms that only give you a mimic potion and minimal space right by the entrance to use it in, I'll accidentally leave a room when I'm about to finish it. Its very much more frustrating than a clean loss, since normally just one key would have fixed it 100%.

(I assume that this is unfixable, codewise?)

It's been brought up several times before on this forum. I don't recall what the official answer is, if any...I think you're just going to have to search for it unless someone else wants to take the time.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1308
Registered: 11-24-2005
IP: Logged

In addition, one other thing that is annoying is when you clear a room, and then do something stupid which forces you to restart. The solution for this one is simple. Add a restore point which is the most recent clear, restored to the exact move when the final monster was killed.

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
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So this program basically gives you unlimited undo. It seems there are a few problems though, and it would be a bit simpler to have a modified version of DROD with that built in. With the source available it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out how to hex edit the .exe to enable unlimited undo. If anyone's interested, and the devs don't veto the idea, I'll be happy to look into this.

Saving anywhere, skipping a room, and undoing a room exit, on the other hand, will require biggish changes to the source.

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

This program isnt just about unlimited undo, you can use it to save and share level runs. For example, if you think you have found the coolest way to solve a level, post your string of chars and somebody else could watch it on their machine. *shrug*. i guess. has anyone actually tried it? to be honest im more interested in the programming than i am of the impact it will have lol.

krammer
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 904
Registered: 02-12-2003
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You know you can do that already, right? Check the "record demo when I conquer a room" option in Settings, then in a completed room press F6 and watch your demo. You can also export it, or import someone elses, and if you have CaravelNet and DROD 2.0 you can download the best scoring demos in-game.

____________________________
+++ Divide by Cucumber Error +++ Please Reinstall Universe and Reboot +++

"Oook!"

Lemures
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 15
Registered: 01-27-2006
IP: Logged

really? ok, i guess i should have checked what was out before i wrote this thing. oh well. i still use it, and i still intend to beat this frustrating game =P if anybody ever has any questions, email me at lemures at gmail dot com.

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[Last edited by Lemures at 02-02-2006 08:09 PM]

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
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OK, attached are instructions for modifying DROD to have unlimited undo. Use at your own discretion.

larrymurk
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1911
Registered: 12-09-2004
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Thanks Michael!

I wish there were an option in DROD for unlimited undos. Since there isn't, this is an awesome fix.

Swivel
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 236
Registered: 09-14-2005
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This is absolutely awesome! I’m in school, so when I get home I will try this out. As Larry wrote, this would be nice to turn on and off. After all, playing This Unrest with unlimited undo might just crash your computer (because the RAM is going to be as free as plastic surgery). Of course, I shouldn't forget the other unfortunate implications of undo (especially with "gameplay morality").

So, I echo michthro's cry for discretion.

____________________________
"Write a wise saying and your name will live forever."
-Anonymous

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[Last edited by Swivel at 02-03-2006 05:13 PM]

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5056
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I removed the attachment above with apologies. Our policy on cheats/hacks is that we won't bear grudges against anyone who uses them, but we won't allow using the forum to promote or distribute them. You are welcome to use your own web space to publish them. (I think this is written up somewhere already, but I can't point to it offhand, sorry.)

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

I apologise, while I'd like to point out, in my defence, that I did say: "If ... the devs don't veto the idea ...". Also, the original post, made over a week ago, is about a program that gives players unlimited undo, among other things. I was actually quite happy when no one came down on Lemures, and when Larry was only too happy about my mod, I thought it was definitely ok. Oh well... Sorry again. Anyway, I won't be posting it anywhere else - if you don't like it here, you obviously won't like that either.

As for the issue of unlimited undo itself: I feel it's high time for it to be included as an option, but I'll rather go into that in a more appropriate thread.

By the way, would a mod making spiders visible be ok? I ask because that woud be a lot like the widely used transparent tar/mud mods.

Swivel
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 236
Registered: 09-14-2005
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A mod making spiders visible? I don't think that you can do such a thing, as spider visibility patterns are coded in the source code. If you released a source code for spider visibility, then you might run into the same problem as before. Plus, spiders aren't used too much. I think that only 1 room in JtRH has them.

michthro
Level: Smitemaestro
Rank Points: 679
Registered: 05-01-2005
IP: Logged

I don't see the difference between a mod(ification) that involves editing drod.exe, and one that involves editing drod.ini (and adding a file or two somewhere).

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

That's like saying you don't see the difference between plugging in a printer to a USB port and overclocking your video card. The ini file is there is order to serve as an avenue for game modification within approved parameters. Modifying the binaries requires greater knowledge and is not supported by the manfucaturer (in this case, Caravel).

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I got my avatar back! Yay!