Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Hey,

Just thought of this today, looking at the scores.
My issue is that my avg rank is pretty low, only due to the fact I originally played JtRH without caring about scores, and not using backspace.

Since caravel.net, things have obviously changed

What I would like to request is another column on the hs screen which shows "average point score per high score". I believe this is a good representation of perfectionism.

It also excuses those who don't have time to play every hold...

Just a thought!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Since everyone gets 1 point for simply finishing a room, I think that this average score still won't tell you much. And once you start having to account for all the different circumstances, the statistic starts meaning less and less.

Also, "average rank" seems to me to be a pretty good indication of how good a player is, even if they haven't played enough holds to get a large point total. In fact, it seems to me to be exactly what you are looking for, just in rank form instead of "average point" form.

Game on,

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[Last edited by Oneiromancer at 01-18-2006 01:53 AM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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It's actually a very different score from the average rank.

As a test, divide the highscores.php "Score" by the "Number of high scores". You'll see the order is totally different.

Maybe this is because a number 1 (outright) position is still calculated as equivalent to the more recent number 2 position but it seems to me that my scoring accentuates players who have a greater combination of outright number 1s versus players who have played a lot of holds...

Any thoughts ?

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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*bump*

Sorry to bring this up again, but I still think it stands as a good (different) marker of skill - especially for those who don't have time to play bulk.

As an example, I'm currently 11th (only just), but the next person on the highscores who has played less rooms than me is 35th. My average rank however is none too impressive.

I'll leave it at that if no-one picks it up, but I still think it's an interesting stat (if only for the Sunday league ).

eytanz
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Yeah, I agree. Even though that ordering would knock me down several notches, I think it would be interesting to see...

The reason it's not equivalent to the average rank, by the way, is that the score isn't linear - if you get 2 1st places and 2 5rd places, you'll have a better score average than someone who got 4 3rd places. Similarly, since all the ranks above 8 are worth the same, the average score will flatten out in a way average rank won't.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 02-14-2006 10:23 PM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Thanks for the explanation Eytanz.

Knock you down several places huh? Well last night I was 11th... and today I'm 12th. Yup - that was you who flew past

On a serious note, I agree that it shouldn't *replace* average rank but yeah... would be nice to see (plus it would send me *up* a few places ).

Anyways, back to reality...

[loads up DROD]

eytanz
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Well, I just meant that if the scores were sorted by this measure, I'd be placed lower than if they were scored either by total points (where I'm #12 again ), or by average rank (where I'm #16, or #14 if you don't count the two people who only have 1 or 2 scores).

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Yeah just overtook you

Good point about people with very few high scores. Maybe a minimum of 100 rooms should be instated.

Schik
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Since this was really easy to code, I added it in. If we determine that it's not very useful or interesting, we can always rip it back out later.

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Nicely done Schik!

agaricus5
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Syntax wrote:
It also excuses those who don't have time to play every hold...

Indeed it does.

(Although, of course, this is not an invitation for people to seek out my scores in order to lower my efficiency. Remember, Guards will be deployed if any sign of such activity is detected on the server, which is only a few hours away down here in the basement).

I am extremely behind, simply because I rather dislike getting a higher movecount for a room than someone else, which stops me finishing many holds (I only finished JtRH because I tested it before the scoring system was implemented).

So I guess I need to get playing again to reach the highest efficiency, although Rabscuttle has an annoying habit of live score leap-frogging. I once had a competition with him over one room for about 2 hours in which #1 swapped between us about 5-6 times. I eventually lost the contest, however, as I didn't have as much free time on my hands as he did.

Edit: I explain this in more detail here.

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 02-17-2006 09:04 PM]

Syntax
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Well to be fair you are by far one of the players I have the most repect for... if only for goblin optimisation.

And looking at your position now does not reflect your skill hence my push for this. Just look at how many less rooms youve played compared to anyone around you. In fact, you're 1st if it comes to dedication to perfection.

But yeah, Rabscuttle will always be the best. I've come to terms with that a while ago

agaricus5
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Syntax wrote:
Well to be fair you are by far one of the players I have the most repect for... if only for goblin optimisation.

Goblin optimisation?

In fact, you're 1st if it comes to dedication to perfection.

Indeed. "Perfection is its own sustenance", I quote, and thus I shall begin my next 20 hour DROD session.

But yeah, Rabscuttle will always be the best. I've come to terms with that a while ago

The question I really want to have answered is "exactly how does Rabscuttle have so much free time to play DROD?". Or is it that Rabscuttle is so good that he can see an optimal solution immediately without actually playing the room several times?

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 02-18-2006 02:18 AM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Goblin optimisation?

Yup... you do things with goblins which I don't see elsewhere. Maybe that shotgun helps...

"Perfection is its own sustenance", I quote, and thus I shall begin my next 20 hour DROD session.

had no idea what you were talking about. Googled it, and now I know

The question I really want to have answered is "exactly how does Rabscuttle have so much free time to play DROD?". Or is it that Rabscuttle is so good that he can see an optimal solution immediately without actually playing the room several times?

Are you thinking of Wallu? Rabscuttle hasn't played too many levels but yeah... his amount of #1s indicates genius. Pure and simple.

Rabscuttle
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No, he's talking about me. Heh, I work in an internet cafe. Although I am currently looking for a new (and proper) job where I won't have as much time to spend playing DROD :)

Time is one of the biggest factors to success (and choice of room). I generally do have to play rooms repeatedly. I think I may have a small advantage as I have been seriously looking at optimisation for about 6 months longer than everyone else (qv KDD level demos). I also am familiar with how most monsters work (especially snakes) which does cut down on the amount of trial and erroring that I need to do.

agaricus5
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Syntax wrote:

"Perfection is its own sustenance", I quote, and thus I shall begin my next 20 hour DROD session.

had no idea what you were talking about. Googled it, and now I know

This I think is now one of my favourite quotes. It is short, very meaningful, catchy, and pretty much true (in an abstract sense).

The question I really want to have answered is "exactly how does Rabscuttle have so much free time to play DROD?". Or is it that Rabscuttle is so good that he can see an optimal solution immediately without actually playing the room several times?

Are you thinking of Wallu? Rabscuttle hasn't played too many levels but yeah... his amount of #1s indicates genius. Pure and simple.

Do you consider 4045 scores out of 5941 (apparently) "(not) too many"? He is third in the highscore race, you know.

Also, the number of #1s indicates that he must have had a very large amount of free time, even if he was a genius (which he must be, I agree). If we assume that a room takes on average 10 minutes for Rabscuttle to complete, and another 20 to optimise (I require something approaching 45 minutes to an hour), that comes to about 1051.5 hours of play time. Caravel.net has been up for nearly a year, so that comes to about 3 hours every day for a whole year, assuming he started when Caravel.net was started!

Of course, some demos may have originated from long before JtRH, so if we assume that instead, the demo creation was performed at a constant rate over the three years that AE has been out, that still comes to just under an hour per day, or about 6.5 hours per week.

Would you not agree that is a lot of free time to have?

Oh, and I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or that Rabscuttle is doing anything wrong. In fact, far from it; I would love to have that sort of free time to play DROD, so I guess I'm just a bit envious.

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[Last edited by agaricus5 at 02-19-2006 02:05 AM]

Maurog
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Well, being the first to reach a room gives you an automatic #1 score, and Rabscuttle has a lot of experience, so his solutions are often optimal. Not many delvers that reach the far rooms of forgotten holds are obsessed enough to spend hours breaking his solution. I just assume that all holds are conquered by Rabscuttle to begin with and it's up to me to reclaim some of that territory by stealing an occasional #1 here and there.

Oh yeah, happy birthday Rabscuttle

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Slight bug:

You cannot sort by Average Points in the individual hold stats. (i.e. click on any hold name to view the scores for just that hold. You cannot sort the Average Points column.)

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