larrymurk
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Should a tar mother keep black walls up or not?

I have produced conflicting situations.

1. Black walls drop if a room starts with only tar mothers.

2. If all tar is broken before the first spawn, then the black walls drop whether there are tar mothers still or not.

3. If all tar is broken after the first spawn and there are no tar mothers then the black walls drop.

4. If all tar is broken after the first spawn and there is a tar mother remaining, the black walls remain up.

It seems to me that situation 4 is inconsistent.

eytanz
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What do you mean "only tar mothers"? Are the tar mothers on tar to begin with?

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larrymurk
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As far as I know, the only way to place a tar mother is on top of tar. By "only tar mothers" I mean that there are no simple tar squares. ie. no tar spots that are not a tar eye.

I'm afraid that making any changes now could makes existing holds unsolvable.

Tim
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larrymurk wrote:
4. If all tar is broken after the first spawn and there is a tar mother remaining, the black walls remain up.

I don't see any inconsistencies here. After a first spawn, a mother will always have tar underneath her. But this does not need to be the case before the first spawn.

Tar mothers without tar underneath are not tar. At least, I think this is very logical.

And of course, when new tar are generated, the black door do not go up, like green doors do not reappear after new monsters are generated.

-- Tim

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eytanz
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File: mother_comp.bmp (87.9 KB)
Downloaded 121 times.
License: Other
From: JtRH

Ok, the thing is this -

You can only place a tar mother on tar.

But a tar mother is not a stable shape for tar.

So, if you place a tar mother in the editor, and then remove the surrounding tar so that only the mother remains, the editor will remove the tar from under the mother. Hence, the tar mother isn't on top of tar. Hence, the black door will open. Once the first spawn cycle comes, tar will grow under the mother.

You can easily see the difference in the following screenshot comparison:



This image shows the same tar mother, before and after the spawn.

This is not a game logic bug. It is arguably an editor bug - maybe the editor shouldn't remove tar from other mothers, at least not automatically.



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[Last edited by eytanz at 11-30-2005 09:28 PM]

larrymurk
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File: black doors.rar (2.1 KB)
Downloaded 40 times.
License: Public Domain

Here is a sample room and 2 demos, see if this makes sense.

If the theory is that tar has grown underneath the eye, that doesn't really hold water since tar doesn't grow on single squares as in this example.

eytanz
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larrymurk wrote:
Here is a sample room and 2 demos, see if this makes sense.

If the theory is that tar has grown underneath the eye, that doesn't really hold water since tar doesn't grow on single squares as in this example.

Tar always grows under tar mothers (since tar mothers are a stable tar square, no matter what size).

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[Last edited by eytanz at 11-30-2005 09:32 PM]

larrymurk
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eytanz wrote:

larrymurk wrote:
Here is a sample room and 2 demos, see if this makes sense.

If the theory is that tar has grown underneath the eye, that doesn't really hold water since tar doesn't grow on single squares as in this example.

Tar always grows under tar mothers.

I guess at the least we should have the option to have tar start under tar mothers (even in unstable shapes) in the editor then.

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[Last edited by larrymurk at 11-30-2005 09:35 PM]

eytanz
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larrymurk wrote:

eytanz wrote:

larrymurk wrote:
Here is a sample room and 2 demos, see if this makes sense.

If the theory is that tar has grown underneath the eye, that doesn't really hold water since tar doesn't grow on single squares as in this example.

Tar always grows under tar mothers.

I guess at the least we should have the option to have tar start under tar mothers (even in unstable shapes) in the editor then.

I agree - as I mentioned in my post above (which you may not have noticed since you were posting at the same time), this is an editor bug. The editor should recognize that tar mothers are always stable and not remove tar from under it.

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coppro
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This is a bump. This hasn't been addressed, and should be. I beleive that the editor shouldn't remove tar from under mothers.

In fact, if you modify line 4670 of DbRooms.cpp to the following two lines:

		(tar[2][2] && tar[2][1] && tar[1][2])) ||   //lower-right corner
		(this->IsMonsterOfTypeAt((wTarType==T_TAR)?M_TARMOTHER:M_MUDMOTHER,wX,wY))); //is there a mother of the appropriate tar type there?

The problem should (I say should, I can't test it) then make it so that all tar is considered stable if a mother is on it, thus fixing the editor issue. Although you might want to recheck for stable tar upon deleting a mother then.

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[Last edited by coppro at 10-06-2006 10:27 PM]