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agaricus5
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icon Bavato's Dungeon: V3.8 (0)  
I'm going to join in now... :devil

Here is version 3 of my hold, Bavato's Dungeon, (Erik and Mike have the two earlier versions) which contains the first three levels of the hold (The levels will probably be enlarged in the future).

I couldn't be bothered to complete all the rooms all over again, so there isn't a victory demo in every one. In this light, even though I'm sure it won't happen, if you find a bug or an un-solvable room at all, then please tell me and I'll edit it.

One other thing - I'm really sorry, but I'm going to withhold hold editing rights for this version, so you won't be able to edit the hold after finishing it. It's not because I want to be selfish, but because there are a few rooms and secrets that I have put in to be used later, but don't want you to see quite yet. Again - I'm really sorry about this.

Apart from that, if you have any feedback, comments, reviews, complaints or errors, then please reply!. :)

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-10-2003 at 10:10 PM]

Please do not use this version, 3.1 - It has a bug in it rendering level 1 uncompletable. Use Version 3.2 instead, below
[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 08:16 AM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 05:44 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 12:52 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:28 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 12:27 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 05:25 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-16-2003 at 11:13 PM]

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07-10-2003 at 10:09 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
I just noticed the bug - when you attach a file, and then preview the message, the attachment disappears!

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07-10-2003 at 10:11 PM
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Schik
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
Yeah, that's not a bug actually - more of a known feature. I did mention it when I announced the file attachments, not that I'd expect everyone to remember it. It's irritating to save the file before a post is submitted that it can be attached to...


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07-10-2003 at 10:13 PM
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Scott
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
I can't seem to finish lvl 1. The blue door won't open. Have I missed a room.

Rooms I have completed.
Entrance
1E
2E
3E
1N2E
1N3E
2N3E
1S1E
1S2E
1S3E
2S
2S1E

I have been to the exit room but not done anything there as the blue door isn't open.
07-11-2003 at 03:52 AM
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StuartK
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
Apart from that, if you have any feedback, comments, reviews, complaints or errors, then please reply!. :)

Gah! *head explodes*

No, I don't want any hints :) I've enjoyed/hated the puzzles so far (it seems I can't take large doses of switch puzzles in one sitting though)

Making notes does the job (on one I took a screengrab and scrawled on that with coloured pens, something I didn't ever do for Dugan) I generally hit a switch repeatedly to judge which doors it affects, and how. Some of your levels have doors such that the lightning bolts overlap, which doesn't aid solving the puzzles in such a 'logical' manner (the one with two switches inside a green box, it took me a while to figure out the effects of the first of the six switch set)

Ummm. 2N3E. I can state with authority that long twisty corridors with switches that have complex effects that sometimes block each other off in unexpected ways and requires lots of running backwards and forwards can try the patience :) Not a complaint, just an observation ;)

There are one or two insta-deaths (well, insta-traps, but it's the same thing) in some rooms. IMO you could easily lose any dead end switches (a corridor with a switch, which closes off the entrance) they add nothing to the gameplay except colourful language. IMO it's a good thing for a switch puzzle if the situation is always 'rescuable'

My solution for 1N3E didn't seem quite right, since I didn't use all the switches.

Click here to view the secret text


I hope levels two and three aren't more switch puzzles :eyes :D

In conclusion, from what I've seen so far, you are possibly the most evil person posting to the DROD forums. There are a couple of holds I've not played yet though... They're coming thick and fast now :D An explosion of creativity, and we've not even got the new gameplay features yet *boggles*
07-11-2003 at 07:04 AM
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agaricus5
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icon Bavato's Dungeon: V3.2 (0)  
Scott wrote:
I can't seem to finish lvl 1. The blue door won't open. Have I missed a room.

Rooms I have completed.
Entrance
1E
2E
3E
1N2E
1N3E
2N3E
1S1E
1S2E
1S3E
2S
2S1E

I have been to the exit room but not done anything there as the blue door isn't open.

Ulp... Bug In Dungeon...

Yet another bug has been found by Snicker - Please do not use this version, 3.2 - It has another bug in it rendering level 1 uncompletable. Use Version 3.3 instead, below. This should be the last bug to appear - I think all the rest work.
[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 08:17 AM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 05:43 PM]

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07-11-2003 at 08:12 AM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.2 (0)  
Oh, and it's 1N 1E that you haven't done yet.

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07-11-2003 at 08:25 AM
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Scott
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.2 (0)  
I deleted my existing version and imported the new one now when I try and play it drod crashes. :(
07-11-2003 at 08:25 AM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.2 (0)  
Are you sure?

Try re-downloading and re-importing it to see if it still works because I can re-import it, and it still works.

If it still fails, then report the bug.

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07-11-2003 at 09:08 AM
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mrimer
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icon Re: Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
StuartK wrote:
There are a couple of holds I've not played yet though... They're coming thick and fast now :D An explosion of creativity, and we've not even got the new gameplay features yet *boggles*
Yeah, and what's interesting for me to observe is that everyone designing holds hasn't even gotten around to using the existing new features either! (Like brain-wraithwing movement, how invisibility potions work with monster types other than roaches... It's also possible I just haven't gotten to these rooms in people's holds, though.

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07-11-2003 at 02:28 PM
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Oneiromancer
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icon Re: Re: Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
mrimer wrote:
Yeah, and what's interesting for me to observe is that everyone designing holds hasn't even gotten around to using the existing new features either! (Like brain-wraithwing movement, how invisibility potions work with monster types other than roaches... It's also possible I just haven't gotten to these rooms in people's holds, though.

Well, I think I covered some of those in my new hold...

Game on,

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07-11-2003 at 05:05 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Re: Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.1 (0)  
mrimer wrote:
StuartK wrote:
There are a couple of holds I've not played yet though... They're coming thick and fast now :D An explosion of creativity, and we've not even got the new gameplay features yet *boggles*
Yeah, and what's interesting for me to observe is that everyone designing holds hasn't even gotten around to using the existing new features either! (Like brain-wraithwing movement, how invisibility potions work with monster types other than roaches... It's also possible I just haven't gotten to these rooms in people's holds, though.
Hey, wait!

If I use up all the really difficult stuff now, then that won't make the hold any fun to play after I've run out of ideas. Saying that...

How much harder do you think the first three levels should be?

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07-11-2003 at 05:08 PM
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Snicker
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.2 (0)  
I think 1N 1E has a bug. I can't get the door in the southwest to open at all, and I'm almost certain that's a requirement to complete this room....

And the scroll in 1S2E is inaccessible. Is that intentional?

[Edited by Snicker on 07-11-2003 at 05:34 PM GMT: Added info about 1S2E]
07-11-2003 at 05:28 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Bavato's Dungeon: V3.3 (0)  
Snicker wrote:
I think 1N 1E has a bug. I can't get the door in the southwest to open at all, and I'm almost certain that's a requirement to complete this room....
Ugggh!!!

Yet another copying bug (I had to copy, by hand, each room on level one from an older build as I had corrupted data, so I'm sorry for any errors it caused)

It certainly works now...

Get version 3.3 - I'm sorry about this....

scroll in 1S2E is inaccessible. Is that intentional?

[Edited by Snicker on 07-11-2003 at 05:34 PM GMT: Added info about 1S2E]
Definitely - It's one of the little "secrets" I'm saving for later :D

One more bug making the level uncompletable has been found. When I have fixed the corrupted data file I have, or can recover my hold, I will fix the bug and release Version 3.4. Sorry about all this, and thanks for being so patient.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 07:34 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-12-2003 at 06:00 PM]

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07-11-2003 at 05:42 PM
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Scott
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.3 (0)  
Are you sure 1N1E is able to be completed. Because theres an area you need to enter that has all the entrances with force arrows pointing in. Bottom right corner of the trapdoor area.

[Edited by Scott on 07-12-2003 at 03:04 AM GMT: Add clarity]
07-12-2003 at 03:03 AM
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zex20913
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.3 (0)  
Yeah, I've come up against this roadblock as well.

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07-12-2003 at 06:08 AM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.3 (0)  
Yes - I copied it wrong again!

I will correct the bug (Please be patient) as soon as I can find a way to get my .dat file working again :(

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07-12-2003 at 03:45 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 (0)  
My DROD is back up and running again!

Thanks for being so patient - Level 1 is completable again (I've fixed 1N 1E), and I've also found one or two bugs making Level 2 too hard.

If you need to do Level 1 all over again, I'm sorry, but please replace your old versions with this new one, Version 3.4.

Again, thanks for the feedback and bug finding. Hopefully this is the last update for the hold that you'll need to do.

A bug in this version, 3.4, makes level 2 uncompletable. Please get version 3.6 on the next page.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 02:26 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:27 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 12:28 PM]

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07-13-2003 at 01:58 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 (0)  
One thing people may have noted from many of my comments on these boards is that I am not a patient man. If a room involves two parts, the thing I hate most is to have to repeat part A indefinitely because I'm stuck in part B. Now this is even worse, because I'm away from my home and have to play DROD on a laptop that is very slow. Walking from one end of the screen to another takes about as 15 seconds, now.

Luckily, at some point someone added checkpoints to DROD. Which make it much easier to actually complete rooms without having to stop, curse, and resist the urge to delete the hold from my harddisk.

Now, take 1N1E. There's a door puzzle in the beginning, and later a maze. It's a nice door puzzle (they're not my favourite kind of thing), and a really good maze. But, if I make a mistake in the maze, I have to repeat the door puzzle. A checkpoint inside the maze could have solved this. It could have made this room, dare I say it, enjoyable. But no. I've got to assume that the hold author is one of those people who equate tedium with difficulty. Well, the lack of the checkpoint does make the room harder to complete - because, as I said, I'm impatient, and sometimes rush ahead where I shouldn't without thinking and have to replay the whole thing. But it doesn't make it more difficult.

p.s. Webfoot did not have checkpoint capability. I solved the dungeon by using a third-party macro recorder (MacroOne, I believe) in order to play through the tedious parts of rooms for me. I would never have had the motivation to complete it otherwise.

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07-13-2003 at 03:03 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Bavato's Dungeon: V3.5 (0)  
Alright......

For those who are more impatient, I have put more checkpoints down in certain rooms where you need to do a lot of work to advance a section.

If you need a few more checkpoints, use Version 3.5

A bug in this version, 3.5, makes level 2 uncompletable. Please get version 3.6 on the next page.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:25 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 12:29 PM]

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07-13-2003 at 03:20 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 (0)  
Yay! :D

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07-13-2003 at 03:34 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Oh, I'm glad you like it more now. :)

Enjoy Level 2....

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:38 PM]

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07-13-2003 at 03:37 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Well, I have to actually finish level 1 first - 3E is cruel, and I haven't figured out the right path to take there yet.

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07-13-2003 at 03:52 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Oh, please don't scream, but...

In the entrance, on level 2, there is supposed to be a checkpoint in the main area, but somehow, it has disappeared. Since it is only a very minor problem, I won't update it now, but I thought I'd like to let you know first...

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07-13-2003 at 03:55 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Heh... I think people are starting to be scared of me :cigar

Seriously, though, the reason I tend to get upset is that it seems to me a trend among hold designers that they put checkpoints in hack-and-slash places, but neglect to put them in logical places between puzzles. Which makes sense, in a way - if you design a puzzle, you know the solution, which makes it easy for you to go through quickly, while hack-and-slash is always time consuming. It's also usually easier to skip puzzle parts without bad consequences in the editor. It's an easy trap to fall into, and it does seriously affect the enjoyment from a hold.

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07-13-2003 at 04:38 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Which room(s) are you referring to?

If it's Level 2: 2S, 2E, then I've put another in.

Do you require another update?

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07-13-2003 at 04:42 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Oh, I was talking in general at the moment, trying to explain why I always harp about checkpoints; I'm not yet in level 2, but level 1 seems to have excellent checkpoint placement since the last update.

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07-13-2003 at 04:52 PM
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
As long as we're discussing checkpoints here and now, do you have any comments about the placement of them in my dungeon, eytan? I do feel the same way as you...if I've proven that I can solve the first puzzle, I don't want to have to prove it over and over again...

Game on,

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07-13-2003 at 09:21 PM
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eytanz
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
Oneiromancer - I don't remember thinking about checkpoints much in your dungeon, which means that they were done to my taste (they're only conspicuous if done wrong). 1S could perhaps use a checkpoint somewhere, but it's such an easy room that it's no big deal.

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07-13-2003 at 11:10 PM
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icon Re: Bavato's Dungeon: V3.4 and V3.5 (0)  
...Is level 2 1S1E possible to do? I don't think there's enough room to kill the first two tar babies that will certainly appear...and there's no way around it that I can see (throughout the level)

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07-14-2003 at 12:54 AM
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