agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I'm going to join in now...

Here is version 3 of my hold, Bavato's Dungeon, (Erik and Mike have the two earlier versions) which contains the first three levels of the hold (The levels will probably be enlarged in the future).

I couldn't be bothered to complete all the rooms all over again, so there isn't a victory demo in every one. In this light, even though I'm sure it won't happen, if you find a bug or an un-solvable room at all, then please tell me and I'll edit it.

One other thing - I'm really sorry, but I'm going to withhold hold editing rights for this version, so you won't be able to edit the hold after finishing it. It's not because I want to be selfish, but because there are a few rooms and secrets that I have put in to be used later, but don't want you to see quite yet. Again - I'm really sorry about this.

Apart from that, if you have any feedback, comments, reviews, complaints or errors, then please reply!.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-10-2003 at 10:10 PM]

Please do not use this version, 3.1 - It has a bug in it rendering level 1 uncompletable. Use Version 3.2 instead, below
[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 08:16 AM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 05:44 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 12:52 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:28 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 12:27 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 05:25 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-16-2003 at 11:13 PM]

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I just noticed the bug - when you attach a file, and then preview the message, the attachment disappears!

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5425
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Yeah, that's not a bug actually - more of a known feature. I did mention it when I announced the file attachments, not that I'd expect everyone to remember it. It's irritating to save the file before a post is submitted that it can be attached to...


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--Mahatma Gandhi

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

I can't seem to finish lvl 1. The blue door won't open. Have I missed a room.

Rooms I have completed.
Entrance
1E
2E
3E
1N2E
1N3E
2N3E
1S1E
1S2E
1S3E
2S
2S1E

I have been to the exit room but not done anything there as the blue door isn't open.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

Apart from that, if you have any feedback, comments, reviews, complaints or errors, then please reply!.

Gah! *head explodes*

No, I don't want any hints I've enjoyed/hated the puzzles so far (it seems I can't take large doses of switch puzzles in one sitting though)

Making notes does the job (on one I took a screengrab and scrawled on that with coloured pens, something I didn't ever do for Dugan) I generally hit a switch repeatedly to judge which doors it affects, and how. Some of your levels have doors such that the lightning bolts overlap, which doesn't aid solving the puzzles in such a 'logical' manner (the one with two switches inside a green box, it took me a while to figure out the effects of the first of the six switch set)

Ummm. 2N3E. I can state with authority that long twisty corridors with switches that have complex effects that sometimes block each other off in unexpected ways and requires lots of running backwards and forwards can try the patience Not a complaint, just an observation

There are one or two insta-deaths (well, insta-traps, but it's the same thing) in some rooms. IMO you could easily lose any dead end switches (a corridor with a switch, which closes off the entrance) they add nothing to the gameplay except colourful language. IMO it's a good thing for a switch puzzle if the situation is always 'rescuable'

My solution for 1N3E didn't seem quite right, since I didn't use all the switches.



I hope levels two and three aren't more switch puzzles

In conclusion, from what I've seen so far, you are possibly the most evil person posting to the DROD forums. There are a couple of holds I've not played yet though... They're coming thick and fast now An explosion of creativity, and we've not even got the new gameplay features yet *boggles*

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Scott wrote:
I can't seem to finish lvl 1. The blue door won't open. Have I missed a room.

Rooms I have completed.
Entrance
1E
2E
3E
1N2E
1N3E
2N3E
1S1E
1S2E
1S3E
2S
2S1E

I have been to the exit room but not done anything there as the blue door isn't open.

Ulp... Bug In Dungeon...

Yet another bug has been found by Snicker - Please do not use this version, 3.2 - It has another bug in it rendering level 1 uncompletable. Use Version 3.3 instead, below. This should be the last bug to appear - I think all the rest work.
[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 08:17 AM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 05:43 PM]

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Oh, and it's 1N 1E that you haven't done yet.

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Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

I deleted my existing version and imported the new one now when I try and play it drod crashes.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Are you sure?

Try re-downloading and re-importing it to see if it still works because I can re-import it, and it still works.

If it still fails, then report the bug.

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mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5153
Registered: 02-04-2003
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StuartK wrote:
There are a couple of holds I've not played yet though... They're coming thick and fast now An explosion of creativity, and we've not even got the new gameplay features yet *boggles*

Yeah, and what's interesting for me to observe is that everyone designing holds hasn't even gotten around to using the existing new features either! (Like brain-wraithwing movement, how invisibility potions work with monster types other than roaches... It's also possible I just haven't gotten to these rooms in people's holds, though.

____________________________
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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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mrimer wrote:
Yeah, and what's interesting for me to observe is that everyone designing holds hasn't even gotten around to using the existing new features either! (Like brain-wraithwing movement, how invisibility potions work with monster types other than roaches... It's also possible I just haven't gotten to these rooms in people's holds, though.

Well, I think I covered some of those in my new hold...

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

mrimer wrote:

StuartK wrote:
There are a couple of holds I've not played yet though... They're coming thick and fast now An explosion of creativity, and we've not even got the new gameplay features yet *boggles*

Yeah, and what's interesting for me to observe is that everyone designing holds hasn't even gotten around to using the existing new features either! (Like brain-wraithwing movement, how invisibility potions work with monster types other than roaches... It's also possible I just haven't gotten to these rooms in people's holds, though.

Hey, wait!

If I use up all the really difficult stuff now, then that won't make the hold any fun to play after I've run out of ideas. Saying that...

How much harder do you think the first three levels should be?

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Snicker
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 30
Registered: 07-07-2003
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I think 1N 1E has a bug. I can't get the door in the southwest to open at all, and I'm almost certain that's a requirement to complete this room....

And the scroll in 1S2E is inaccessible. Is that intentional?

[Edited by Snicker on 07-11-2003 at 05:34 PM GMT: Added info about 1S2E]

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Snicker wrote:
I think 1N 1E has a bug. I can't get the door in the southwest to open at all, and I'm almost certain that's a requirement to complete this room....

Ugggh!!!

Yet another copying bug (I had to copy, by hand, each room on level one from an older build as I had corrupted data, so I'm sorry for any errors it caused)

It certainly works now...

Get version 3.3 - I'm sorry about this....

scroll in 1S2E is inaccessible. Is that intentional?

[Edited by Snicker on 07-11-2003 at 05:34 PM GMT: Added info about 1S2E]

Definitely - It's one of the little "secrets" I'm saving for later

One more bug making the level uncompletable has been found. When I have fixed the corrupted data file I have, or can recover my hold, I will fix the bug and release Version 3.4. Sorry about all this, and thanks for being so patient.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-11-2003 at 07:34 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-12-2003 at 06:00 PM]

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Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Are you sure 1N1E is able to be completed. Because theres an area you need to enter that has all the entrances with force arrows pointing in. Bottom right corner of the trapdoor area.

[Edited by Scott on 07-12-2003 at 03:04 AM GMT: Add clarity]

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Yeah, I've come up against this roadblock as well.

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Yes - I copied it wrong again!

I will correct the bug (Please be patient) as soon as I can find a way to get my .dat file working again

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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My DROD is back up and running again!

Thanks for being so patient - Level 1 is completable again (I've fixed 1N 1E), and I've also found one or two bugs making Level 2 too hard.

If you need to do Level 1 all over again, I'm sorry, but please replace your old versions with this new one, Version 3.4.

Again, thanks for the feedback and bug finding. Hopefully this is the last update for the hold that you'll need to do.

A bug in this version, 3.4, makes level 2 uncompletable. Please get version 3.6 on the next page.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 02:26 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:27 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 12:28 PM]

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

One thing people may have noted from many of my comments on these boards is that I am not a patient man. If a room involves two parts, the thing I hate most is to have to repeat part A indefinitely because I'm stuck in part B. Now this is even worse, because I'm away from my home and have to play DROD on a laptop that is very slow. Walking from one end of the screen to another takes about as 15 seconds, now.

Luckily, at some point someone added checkpoints to DROD. Which make it much easier to actually complete rooms without having to stop, curse, and resist the urge to delete the hold from my harddisk.

Now, take 1N1E. There's a door puzzle in the beginning, and later a maze. It's a nice door puzzle (they're not my favourite kind of thing), and a really good maze. But, if I make a mistake in the maze, I have to repeat the door puzzle. A checkpoint inside the maze could have solved this. It could have made this room, dare I say it, enjoyable. But no. I've got to assume that the hold author is one of those people who equate tedium with difficulty. Well, the lack of the checkpoint does make the room harder to complete - because, as I said, I'm impatient, and sometimes rush ahead where I shouldn't without thinking and have to replay the whole thing. But it doesn't make it more difficult.

p.s. Webfoot did not have checkpoint capability. I solved the dungeon by using a third-party macro recorder (MacroOne, I believe) in order to play through the tedious parts of rooms for me. I would never have had the motivation to complete it otherwise.

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Alright......

For those who are more impatient, I have put more checkpoints down in certain rooms where you need to do a lot of work to advance a section.

If you need a few more checkpoints, use Version 3.5

A bug in this version, 3.5, makes level 2 uncompletable. Please get version 3.6 on the next page.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:25 PM]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-14-2003 at 12:29 PM]

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Yay!

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I got my avatar back! Yay!

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Oh, I'm glad you like it more now.

Enjoy Level 2....

[Edited by agaricus5 on 07-13-2003 at 03:38 PM]

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
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Well, I have to actually finish level 1 first - 3E is cruel, and I haven't figured out the right path to take there yet.

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Oh, please don't scream, but...

In the entrance, on level 2, there is supposed to be a checkpoint in the main area, but somehow, it has disappeared. Since it is only a very minor problem, I won't update it now, but I thought I'd like to let you know first...

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Heh... I think people are starting to be scared of me

Seriously, though, the reason I tend to get upset is that it seems to me a trend among hold designers that they put checkpoints in hack-and-slash places, but neglect to put them in logical places between puzzles. Which makes sense, in a way - if you design a puzzle, you know the solution, which makes it easy for you to go through quickly, while hack-and-slash is always time consuming. It's also usually easier to skip puzzle parts without bad consequences in the editor. It's an easy trap to fall into, and it does seriously affect the enjoyment from a hold.

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agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
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Which room(s) are you referring to?

If it's Level 2: 2S, 2E, then I've put another in.

Do you require another update?

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
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Oh, I was talking in general at the moment, trying to explain why I always harp about checkpoints; I'm not yet in level 2, but level 1 seems to have excellent checkpoint placement since the last update.

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
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As long as we're discussing checkpoints here and now, do you have any comments about the placement of them in my dungeon, eytan? I do feel the same way as you...if I've proven that I can solve the first puzzle, I don't want to have to prove it over and over again...

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Oneiromancer - I don't remember thinking about checkpoints much in your dungeon, which means that they were done to my taste (they're only conspicuous if done wrong). 1S could perhaps use a checkpoint somewhere, but it's such an easy room that it's no big deal.

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zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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...Is level 2 1S1E possible to do? I don't think there's enough room to kill the first two tar babies that will certainly appear...and there's no way around it that I can see (throughout the level)

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