butsam
Level: Master Delver
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I propose warp points in rooms that send Beethro to another warp point in the same room without restarting the room. They could be labelled with a circle, and lightning-attached to the associated warp point. This allows a HUGE new slew of puzzles, especially puzzles where you have to get the monsters to move in a certain way.

Sam

[Edited by butsam on 07-10-2003 at 06:26 PM]

mrimer
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Yeah -- that's a great idea! They will most probably be in the form of tunnels.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Oneiromancer
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If they are tunnels, would the transport be instantaneous? That wouldn't make much sense. And if it wasn't, and instead Beethro travelled in another "layer" (which should always be in a straight line, otherwise it would be too difficult to see), then that might be too difficult to program. I suppose one could say that when in a tunnel Beethro is effectively invisible to the monsters, and so they wouldn't move anyway, but what would snakes do?

Well, let's pretend that this is a fantasy game and so shouldn't be bound by mere "reality". Then we have warping tunnels. How do you know where you are going, if there are more than two of them? Butsam mentioned lightning connecting them, but that lightning shouldn't be going all the time, and if it only strikes when you enter the tunnel then you already know where you went. Being able to choose your exit, like placing a mimic, might be interesting if there is more than one choice.

Just some thoughts...this could probably be a useful addition.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

mrimer
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Here's the full description on it.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=530828&group_id=10939&atid=360939

(Feel free to browse through the other tasks as well. The ones on the list marked adopted will probably be added to the next release of DROD!)

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

butsam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 114
Registered: 05-20-2003
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I personally would like it better if monsters could not warp through the tunnels, actually. Otherwise, it takes away some of the puzzles with tunnels in them. Hey, actually maybe they can be called teleporters, and the lightning flashes for a second between the two stations while Beethro teleports...that'd be cool! OK maybe a bit cliche though, so maybe tunnels is the way to go, but just a suggestion.

One more thing to add to this: Just because tunnel A leads to tunnel B doesn't mean that tunnel B leads to tunnel A. It'd be another good puzzle trick to have the tunnels be "one-way" because then you can take Beethro in a huge ring, or teleport him to the middle of monsters and let him sweat

Sam

Snicker
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Anyone ever played Dungeon Master? Old first-person dungeon crawl game. There's a great teleporter / forcewall puzzle there, took me days to figure out. Same effect could be achieved with teleporters (both one and two-way) and orbs.

mrimer
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One way tunnels can be achieved by placing one-way yellow gate "airlocks" outside of the destination tunnel. Or one door outside the "entrance" and the other outside the "exit" (you have to hit the orb that closes the door at the entrance to open the one at the exit). It's less elegant than having some tunnels only go one way, but I think it's part of the DROD philosophy to always know what a screen element is going to do by looking at it. The orbs are an exception, but I think some of those nasty orb puzzles out there make up for not being able to make such tricky tunnel puzzles!

Well...maybe there will be one-way tunnels in the end, but they'll have to look different than the two-way ones. Here's to hoping.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Snicker wrote:
Anyone ever played Dungeon Master? Old first-person dungeon crawl game. There's a great teleporter / forcewall puzzle there, took me days to figure out. Same effect could be achieved with teleporters (both one and two-way) and orbs.

I played it, but with a friend at his house and he had the hint book, so I don't really remember that puzzle. I played the Eye of the Beholder series more, although I knew that Dungeon Master predated them. The Ultima Underworlds were great too.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

StuartK
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mrimer wrote:
Well...maybe there will be one-way tunnels in the end, but they'll have to look different than the two-way ones. Here's to hoping.

How about allowing Beethro to poke his sword through the warp point while remaining at the other end? He'd have to stab or sidestep and swipe to kill any creatures on the other side. Or will gate entrances and exits always be 'safe'? It could be up to the player to place crumbling walls etc to protect the exits (crumbling walls could be placed to only provide protection the first time you go through a gate)

Has it been decided whether creatures can traverse gates? Perhaps only when they're under brain control...

mrimer
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StuartK wrote:
Has it been decided whether creatures can traverse gates? Perhaps only when they're under brain control...

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking... Without brains, they're mostly safe.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

StuartK
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When going through warps. Should Beethro play pot luck, should there be checkpoints placed by authors when a choice may be dangerous, wrong or otherwise 'undoable' or should there always be a method to determine the destination

1. Colour coding (tell destinations immediately from room start)
2. Hitting the warp entrance with a sword shows lightening, same as orbs (tell destinations by investigating warps individually)

When Beethro exits a warp, if the square he is on contains a creature, would this be an insta-death? Or is re-materialising inside a dungeon creature considered bad for its health? Unless it's a snake of course. Hmmm. Is it possible to ride snakes, or would Beethro be rematerialising inside a snakes body? Would such a thing kill Beethro, or chop the snake in half?

[Edited by StuartK on 07-12-2003 at 01:43 AM]

mrimer
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They're not warps, they're tunnels. Opposite facing tunnels on the same row/column would warp to each other. Stepping on a monster is impossible -- you bump off it. Letting it step on you would kill you.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

zex20913
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As tunnels are designed...would it be possible to step diagonally through them? If so, would Beethro (and therefore many monsters) emerge diagonally?

____________________________

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Nope. Only straight forward (take a look at the link, its comments, and attached images).

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

trick
Level: Legendary Smitemaster
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You could also include teleporters the way they're done in.. eh, can't remember the name of the game right now, but it works by sending the object that enters the teleporter to the next teleporter in the down-right direction. Kinda hard to explain, but here's an illustration:

0030
0100
0240
5000

1 warps to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5, and 5 to 1. If a teleporter is blocked by having an object on top of it, the next teleporter in the sequence is used in stead.

- Gerry