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Oneiromancer
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icon New hold conventions (+1)  
With all of the new holds (okay, about 7 so far isn't a lot, but it will be growing, I'm sure), perhaps we should agree on some conventions for releasing them to the general public?

For example, I am thinking that until you have a completely final version--which probably shouldn't be until we are out of beta--you should only release one level at a time. Sure, we have lots of fun fighting our way through the puzzles, but if some kind of problem is discovered on level 7 and we have to start over again on a new version, then I for one don't want to start right up again...at least right away. If you only make one level dungeons, this problem will be solved.

Perhaps once the beta is over and the final version is released, it would be good to have a playtester's forum...somewhere where people can post their initial holds and those who download them know that they may be playing them over and over again. Then when they have been tested by people besides the initial creator, they can be posted in a completed holds forum or something like that.

Anyway...there are many more things, and this is in a preliminary stage anyway, so any thoughts or other conventions that people want?

Game on,

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07-10-2003 at 02:36 AM
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zex20913
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icon Re: New hold conventions (0)  
Yeah...(blushing face) that sounds like a good idea.

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07-10-2003 at 03:25 AM
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mrimer
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icon Re: New hold conventions (0)  
I'm trying something new out in build 28 that I think is pretty important: whenever you import a newer version of a hold you already have in memory, it will retain a saved game at the start of each level your player(s) has(have) been to (Erik's idea). It should also allow your players to retain editing privileges if they've already beaten the hold and the author allows for that. Of course it's nearly impossible to determine whether previous saved games are still valid if the hold has changed in arbitrary ways since a prior version, but at least if the level structure has been maintained (meaning you're still using some of the same levels in the same original hold as before -- you just modified some rooms here and there, for instance) then someone who's played through one or two of these levels won't lose all their progress. This seems as good or better than releasing new holds in one level increments.

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07-10-2003 at 04:04 AM
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bdcribbs
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icon Re: New hold conventions (0)  
I know I've read that Erik is extremely reluctant to make any changes (in the levels or in the code) that effect the gameplay of Dugan's dungeon, and there are obviously good reasons for that.

Perhaps there should be a way to "finalize" a hold. It could be posted for playtesting in an unfinalized state, and when the author chose to release it (in a forum for the timid who don't want to help playtest), it would then be finalized and frozen (only copies of it could be edited).

Just a thought.
07-10-2003 at 04:15 AM
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Oneiromancer
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icon Re: New hold conventions (0)  
Another option would be for the "playtest" version to have the entrance be a warp room to the rest of the dungeon, and then just delete those extra stairways as soon as it is finalized. Or, of course, let everyone have editing priviliges from the beginning (which might also help when something needs to be changed...let the playtester make the change and see if it helps before suggesting it to the hold creator).

Actually, I thought about what mrimer said he is trying to do, but I thought it would be too difficult. I guess I shouldn't think that way, huh?

Honestly, since it isn't that hard to copy and paste a whole level into a hold, I don't see anything wrong with playtesting one level at a time. The only drawback I foresee is that everyone is going to want to play the levels as soon as they are released, which means that the final release won't get as much attention because they've already played it. But then the levels can be put on the website for future players, so I suppose it's alright.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams
07-10-2003 at 07:08 AM
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mrimer
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icon Re: New hold conventions (0)  
Oh, it's already done! What I meant by "trying" is that it should work (I've tested it a bit), but of course there might be some bugs in it.

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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.
07-10-2003 at 03:06 PM
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Snicker
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icon Re: New hold conventions (0)  
I've already implemented some of this with Clancy's Basement - but I put in warps to to every 5 levels.
07-10-2003 at 06:16 PM
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