zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Some of you have seen my snake level. Well, I've revamped it, and thrown it into an actual hold now. It may not be challenging (in all parts), but I like to think that it's unique. Enjoy!

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krammer
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 904
Registered: 02-12-2003
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Erm - you haven't edited the stairs, I got the conquered dungeon message after Level One.

It's a lot better than before, but you may want to change the editing rights - I had a look at the other levels and if you look at level 3 it takes all the challenge out of it.

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+++ Divide by Cucumber Error +++ Please Reinstall Universe and Reboot +++

"Oook!"

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
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Hrm...okay. I'll change that (both of them).

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zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Okay....taking Krammer's suggestion and making it so you have to beat everything, here's the new thing. I hope nobody spoils level three for those of us who haven't downloaded it yet...

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Nice hold - level 1 is quite easy but fun, level 2 (which I'm trying to solve) is harder; and seems to suffer from the #1 annoying thing about most player holds - not enough checkpoints (in 1E, for instance, it's extremely easy to do 90% of the room and then die, because of a tar baby appearing behind you. It's really not fun to play through from the beginning the seventh time).

Other than that, though, it seems like a really great hold.

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Now there's a statement I must revise - I need to replay 2N - a room where figuring out what to do is interesting, but actually doing it not so much - just because I decided to go that way before re-attempting 1E? I see no reason to continue playing this hold.

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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Ouch, eytanz, that is pretty harsh. That's okay though, I got to level 2 and decided it was hard enough that I should actually do some work. Checkpoints are very nice though. Actually, in your hold, I really wished I had an extra checkpoint in 1N. I was able to get to the first checkpoint just fine, and then it took me 20 tries to kill the brains, and then it took me 10 more tries to get to the Eastern section, where I made a stupid mistake, and after 20 more tries I kept making more stupid mistakes without even getting to the Eastern section. I knew exactly what to do, but my fingers didn't want to do what my brain did.

However, I see that I have editing priviliges on your hold (perhaps I have an early version?)...so I might go and add a checkpoint so I can finally solve that room and continue on. I know that zex just changed the priviliges on his hold, but I think it might actually be a good idea, since we are still in beta and searching for bugs, to let people do things like this. That is, add a checkpoint when you need it. (BTW, zex, thank you so much for that checkpoint under the arrow on the snake maze room. I forgot to change my sword direction and that was great for reducing the annoyance factor.)

Anyway, up to the hold creator, obviously. I really need to make some rooms, I am falling behind here...

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Are you talking about the "haha" scroll? I put it there because I thought that people would see the stairs, and run towards it. If you do that, the spiders (which hopefully remain invisible) will get you, then you'll figure it out, and then the scroll will make sense, as you would have died when you stepped on it the first time. I don't know what you thought it was, but I don't think it was that.

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zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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oh...OH!!! No, there's no need for a replay of 2N. I made that a non-required room. Once all of the other rooms are done, the door should open.

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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No; the problem is that if you go into 2N from 1N without solving all the rooms on the level, there is no way to return, requiring a restore to an earlier part of the level, and making replaying 1N necessary (that was a typo in my original post). I tested all the walls for secret exits that would allow me to bypass this, but I didn't find any.

I was assuming this was intentional due to the "ha ha" scroll - but even as a bug, it means I probably won't replay the level because I really don't want to play 1N again - it was an interesting room to figure out, but not to play through.

Oh, and sorry for the harsh tone in my previous post - I've been having a rather bad day and was really sort of annoyed in general when I wrote it.

[Edited by eytanz on 07-10-2003 at 01:40 AM]

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

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Oneiromancer - the only version of my hold that I uploaded was a very early version, with one level; as it currently stands the hold has three levels (with the rooms in the first level distributed a bit differently).

Let me know where you think I should add a second checkpoint - I agree that adding one would probably make it more accessible but I'm not too sure where to put it (the way I solve the room, I actually return to the SE corner after every brain or two I kill, which is why the checkpoint is there).

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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eytanz wrote:
Oneiromancer - the only version of my hold that I uploaded was a very early version, with one level; as it currently stands the hold has three levels (with the rooms in the first level distributed a bit differently).

Let me know where you think I should add a second checkpoint - I agree that adding one would probably make it more accessible but I'm not too sure where to put it (the way I solve the room, I actually return to the SE corner after every brain or two I kill, which is why the checkpoint is there).

The way I solve it, I go up and down the first two columns. Of course this lets quite a few tar babies out, so I make a strategic retreat to the checkpoint. Then I kill the babies, and move up into the upper passage near the checkpoint. Once I kill the babies in that wave, I kill the next two brains and move into the central passage. Kill a wave of babies, then move up and kill two brains by the skill of my teeth and move into the next passage. Kill the wave, then kill the last two brains. At this point is where I put the checkpoint, right next to the red door (and symmetrical with the other checkpoint). Getting to the Eastern section from here is still tricky, even without the brains, because there are so many babies from most directions each turn. And when I would try to make it back to the first checkpoint I would invariably die (of course it is possible, but I was screwing up big time by that point). And then you get a nice bonus checkpoint after killing the mother, just in case you do something stupid while mopping up the babies. So that is where I put it...just because I am accident-prone and can't get very far without making a mistake.

I didn't look at the rest of the hold, and I solved it a few minutes ago. I agree that it was a neat idea. Definitely a few false starts before I saw the pattern. And giving the lie to my statement that I am accident-prone, I got through that big red floor area with the arrows in three tries, with both restarts only being in the very beginning. And then after I killed the mother and brain I thought I had screwed up and thrown the wrong switch, but then I found that I could use the other one. Whew!

Anyway, very well done hold, even if you are overly enamored with tar.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
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Ouch, the same thing happened to me as to eytanz. I didn't realize that it was level 2 you were talking about. I went to the scroll and actually died exactly on it (I was amazed...oh my God!!! A deadly scroll! (of Death!))! Then when I tried to go back, I couldn't, because of the red door. Hmmm. At least I only have to do 1N again, and it was pretty easy. Not looking forward to 1E though.

Edit: I was right...I did not look forward to 1E. I think I will save that for tomorrow. Even if you do add checkpoints, I don't want to do the first level over again. Oh, well.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 07-10-2003 at 02:27 AM]

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Oh my...I didn't even think of the backtracking there...I'm going to fix that and upload a new version right now. Sorry for all of the inconveniences this has caused.

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zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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File: King Tims Dungeons.hold (22.3 KB)
Downloaded 69 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Okay...this should fix all of the problems heresofar mentioned. I added a backtrack path in 1n, and placed some checkpoints, which may or may not be beneficial. I'm unsure as to checkpoint placement likenesses, but I think having these is much better than not having them. Again, I'm really sorry for not realizing this earlier.

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Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
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Much better. Completed it now. The checkpoints and the fix on level 2 made it very enjoyable. Even 1 east wasn't that bad. More I want to see more.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Now that it has a checkpoint, 1E was actually a lot of fun. Level 2 was kind of uneven, though - some extremely easy rooms (the one with the big spider, and the one with the red door maze), and some extremely difficult ones (1E, 1S1E).

Also:


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zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
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The shortcut:

I made the "red door room" off of the idea of the labyrinth. There's something relaxing to people about a maze with one path. Or something. For the spider, I wanted to do a bit of artwork (like Stuart). I think it looks really cool in the map, when the background is either red or green. (Spiderman anyone?) I'm probably going to build some more levels now.

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Snicker
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 30
Registered: 07-07-2003
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Yes, 1E ate my lunch until you put in the check point. I'm a little stuck on 1N, but I'll figure it out eventually. I did like the one-path maze Simple, but nice.

As an FYI to other hold-builders, it's a good idea to break up a stint of tough rooms with a nice simple room with a completely different plot. It keeps the levels from seeming so monotonous (like certain *coughlevel13coughs* levels are.)

Good job with the snakes, also, although I was wondering if L1 2N could be built without the force arrow? Would it still be solvable?

Ratings (scale of 1-10 for difficulty)
Level 1:
E - 2
1N - 6 (but I never used the trap door)
2N - 3
3N - 1
4N - 4
5N - 6
6N - 7 (And rather enjoyable, too - the brain surprised me )
7N - 4 (but had to exit the room and re-enter it to complete it.
Level 2:
E: - 2
1N - Not Complete Yet
1S - 7
2S - 4
2S1E - 1
2S2E - 2
2S3E - 4 (But would be a little more difficult if the eyes were the same distance apart from Beethro)
1E - 9 without checkpoint 6 with
1E1S - 8 if you do it the hard way 6 if you figure out "the trick"
2E1S - Toga! Toga! Toga! (4)

1E and 1E1S are both very well done. Well, so far, most of it is great, but I'm not done yet

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Yeah...1E continues to eat my lunch, and I made the darn thing. I keep forgetting where I put the doors...And I'm glad you liked the labyrinth.

Hmm...I don't think 2N would be solvable without the Force Arrow. If you take it out, the snake of the bottom left would go down, heading for Beethro. Maybe there's a way to use a red door instead...or something.

My only question about your ratings:
L1-E: Why is this a 2? I thought it would be a 1.

Enjoy the rest of it!

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lucretia
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 32
Registered: 02-05-2003
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I liked the Cube reference Good fun.

Snicker
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 30
Registered: 07-07-2003
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L1 1E is a 2 because a) not everyone knows about the behaviour you're exploiting, and b) even if you do, you can still make the wrong choices while herding (I know I did )

Mister
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 104
Registered: 02-27-2003
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L1 2N is solvable without the force arrow as long as you don't enter from the left half of the entrance.

L2 1S is very easy.

L2 1E: I hate it. I love it.

L2 1N: Nice idea, but boring.

L2 2S3E: My fav in this hold.