MeckMeck GRE
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Question for lame duck : Is the player removed at the beginning or at the end of the 2nd inactive cycle ?

Alneyan
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I would think they are removed at the beginning of the second turn, as we have no trouble noticing who didn't submit any command in the previous cycle. I know I am within striking range of an inactive mimic, and could rack up that kill without taking a lot of risks.

So, for the rule to work as intended, I think those inactive mimics are killed before anyone gets to move. That, and Erik's wording seems to go that way: "if you don't submit commands, your character would sit in place for 5 turns. And then when you didn't submit commands for the next cycle, I'd drop you from the game".

Doom
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Alneyan wrote:
I would think they are removed at the beginning of the second turn, as we have no trouble noticing who didn't submit any command in the previous cycle. I know I am within striking range of an inactive mimic, and could rack up that kill without taking a lot of risks.

So, for the rule to work as intended, I think those inactive mimics are killed before anyone gets to move. That, and Erik's wording seems to go that way: "if you don't submit commands, your character would sit in place for 5 turns. And then when you didn't submit commands for the next cycle, I'd drop you from the game".

I don't like this situation. You can't know if people who didn't submit any moves on the first cycle will submit any moves on the second cycle.

See this example situation: I could get an easy kill of a person on the second cycle, but he didn't submit anything on the first cycle. I don't know if he will be removed from the game or not. If I go for him and he doesn't submit anything, I will have wasted one cycle for nothing. If I don't go for him, I might have missed an easy kill.

Making inactive players disappear at the end of the turn would be a little better IMO.

ErikH2000
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Alneyan is correct about how the rule works.

Doom wrote:
See this example situation: I could get an easy kill of a person on the second cycle, but he didn't submit anything on the first cycle. I don't know if he will be removed from the game or not. If I go for him and he doesn't submit anything, I will have wasted one cycle for nothing. If I don't go for him, I might have missed an easy kill.

But everyone on the board is dealing with uncertainty in one form or another. The unfairness comes in when you are given a much more predictable situation just because you happened to be standing by an inactive player. Consider also that with the new rule, there's no reason to beeline for somebody that was inactive one turn. If they are inactive the 2nd turn, they'll be gone like a mirage when you arrive. If they are active the 2nd turn, they're likely to move on to some other location and not stay in place again.

Making inactive players disappear at the end of the turn would be a little better IMO.

But it also would be a little harsh for players that just weren't around to submit commands on one cycle or were a little disorganized.

-Erik

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eytanz
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ErikH2000 wrote:

Making inactive players disappear at the end of the turn would be a little better IMO.

But it also would be a little harsh for players that just weren't around to submit commands on one cycle or were a little disorganized.

-Erik

I think he meant at the end of the second turn, i.e., that they get to be sitting targets for a whole turn.

But I agree, he's missing the point - the whole reason for this rule is to prevent players from targetting sitting duck players.

One suggestion - maybe you should announce who the players that may be removed are each turn? That way, people will know not to target them, but anyone who submitted '5 5 5 5 5' will be fair game, just like the rest of us.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 10-11-2005 05:27 PM]

ErikH2000
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eytanz wrote:
One suggestion - maybe you should announce who the players that may be removed are each turn? That way, people will know not to target them, but anyone who submitted '5 5 5 5 5' will be fair game, just like the rest of us.

But I won't know that players are inactive for the 2nd cycle until after everyone else has submitted their commands. And then when I post everyone's commands you see that they have been removed, but I don't know until after the command submit deadline.

-Erik

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Doom
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Well, ok. I guess that the problem isn't a major one. There could be special situations where the inactive player is next to another player's sword who moves first. In that case, the other player would just miss a certain kill if the inactive player disappeared. But there aren't that kind of situations, so nevermind.

ErikH2000 wrote:
But I won't know that players are inactive for the 2nd cycle until after everyone else has submitted their commands. And then when I post everyone's commands you see that they have been removed, but I don't know until after the command submit deadline.

I got the feeling that eytanz meant just telling people who didn't submit any moves on the first cycle. Yes, there are people who will propably submit moves on the second, but they won't be attacked as likely as others anyway. I don't think that requires announcing, though. It's easy to check the move list for 5 5 5 5 5's. And if someone actually sent that as their move, don't they deserve the 'possibly harmless' status?

eytanz
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Doom wrote:
Well, ok. I guess that the problem isn't a major one. There could be special situations where the inactive player is next to another player's sword who moves first. In that case, the other player would just miss a certain kill if the inactive player disappeared. But there aren't that kind of situations, so nevermind.

ErikH2000 wrote:
But I won't know that players are inactive for the 2nd cycle until after everyone else has submitted their commands. And then when I post everyone's commands you see that they have been removed, but I don't know until after the command submit deadline.

I got the feeling that eytanz meant just telling people who didn't submit any moves on the first cycle. Yes, there are people who will propably submit moves on the second, but they won't be attacked as likely as others anyway. I don't think that requires announcing, though. It's easy to check the move list for 5 5 5 5 5's. And if someone actually sent that as their move, don't they deserve the 'possibly harmless' status?

But see, the problem is that Erik put down 5 5 5 5 5 for both the people who submitted 5 5 5 5 5 (if there were any), as well as the people who are eligable for removal. I think that it's not a good idea to hide this information from the rest of the players, since there's a big difference between "might disappear" and "definitely won't disappear" as far as planning goes.

Edit: After posting, it occured to me that if this information is public, it could be abused by people who deliberately skip a cycle to avoid being targetted. So I'm not sure what's best anymore.

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[Last edited by eytanz at 10-11-2005 05:56 PM]

ErikH2000
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I think there's pros and cons to each situation, but I'm reasonably happy with what we have now since it mostly keeps inactive players from being targetted.

-Erik

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Banjooie
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Heh. I didn't bother submitting commands, primarily because...uh....well. Damn you, #4!