Crazy Ivan
Level: Delver
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Registered: 04-24-2004
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My apologies if this has been suggested before.

What I'd really like in the game would be the ability to press a key, then click on a square and then have Beethro "walk" to that particular square in the shortest number of moves.. KSokoban has this feature. When blocked or force arrows are on the path, this feature should not do anything. Beethro will ofcourse be keeping his sword in the same direction while doing this and can get killed while trying to reach te clicked square.

It would be a way to handle winding passages, which I find tedious. Or quickly leave the room after the puzzle in that room is solved.
The maze level on KDD would be IMHO more doable and perhaps somehow more fun with this option.

I would not really think of such feature as 'cheating' but more as a shortcut or macro to otherwise tedious actions.

Kind regards,

Michael

Mattcrampy
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Don't think it has been suggested before... but that's actually a pretty interesting idea. I can't see an obvious downside, and I know I'd appreciate the feature.

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eytanz
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Well, for me the downside would be that I'd be required to use the mouse, thereby slowing me down (since I use the mouse with the same hand I use the keypad). Still, this would be a personal preferrence thing, not an argument against the feature.

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Mistweave
Level: Goblin
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I can also see a clever architect using this feature against Beethro in certain circumstances. For instance, it's not at all hard to create a puzzle whose solution requires Beethro to wait a beat in the middle of a long sequence of moves down a winding corridor, to lure a monster into the appropriate spot.

And in case it's not clear - that's a reason in favor of putting the feature in, IMHO.

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Abyssal Squid
Level: Roachling
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I imagine this is almost entirely for situations like Second Level: Twice East in Dugan's Dungeon, where going there manually is tedious and error-prone, so switching would (well, should) always take less time than using the keypad. Of course, both mouse buttons are already used, so either double-right-clicking would be necessary, or maybe a key for move-to mode, which would be much like placing a mimic or decoy.

I just hope it doesn't use the same pathfinding algorithm as brains do, since brains have an annoying tendancy to get monsters stuck in endless loops.

Syntax
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That idea, though good, would make DROD unrealistic (unlike now)...
I'd only use it the day I can teleport to work

Mattcrampy
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I'd expect it'd use the same pathfinding as scripts currently do - that is, beelining, and giving up if you can't make it via beelining.

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Crazy Ivan
Level: Delver
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@Syntax: Beethro would not be 'teleporting', he would just move there like you would have typed the corresponding movement keys. In my opinion nothing unrealistic about it. However I agree that if the animation speed is to fast (like in KSokoban) it would seem like teleporting and that might be undesirable. But still, you would have the choice to use this feature or not, like QW-ing with the macro or oldfashioned style.

@Mattcrampy: I would not like it to be beelining, that wouldn't help much for negotiating twisting corridors. I'd expect it to use the same pathfinding as brained roaches do.

kind regards,

Michael

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[Last edited by Crazy Ivan at 09-01-2005 10:14 AM]

Crazy Ivan
Level: Delver
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Abyssal Squid wrote:
I just hope it doesn't use the same pathfinding algorithm as brains do, since brains have an annoying tendancy to get monsters stuck in endless loops.

Do they ? I've never ecountered this before. Could you give an example?

kind regards,

Michael

Rabscuttle
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File: Indecisive Poppy.hold (982 bytes)
Downloaded 78 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Under normal circumstances, brains won't lead creatures into loops.

They can get confused by orthosquares in diagonal passages and changing room conditions (serpents moving or doors changing)

As Beethro has a sword, it is possible for him to get stuck in an endless loop if doors and orbs are set up just right - see the attached room for an example with a guard.

Abyssal Squid
Level: Roachling
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Crazy Ivan wrote:

Abyssal Squid wrote:
I just hope it doesn't use the same pathfinding algorithm as brains do, since brains have an annoying tendancy to get monsters stuck in endless loops.

Do they ? I've never ecountered this before. Could you give an example?

kind regards,

Michael

Off the top of my head, I can think of the eye maze at thrice west on level 7 of Claythro Tower, which I can attatch if people want. Something similar was exploited in the Tar Ballroom (1s and 1w), but that involved serpents.

If nothing else, some way to break the cycle should be included.

Crazy Ivan
Level: Delver
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Ok, no brained roach or guard behaviour then, what about moving like a slayer who has a wisp on his target? Beethro would stop moving if the wisp would be cut.

@A. Squid: its to long ago I played Claythro's tower to remember that room, but I'll have a look at the tar balroom hold.

@Rabscuttle: I like that room, is it part of a hold you are working on ?

kind regards,

Michael

Mister
Level: Master Delver
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Just calculate the shortest path first, and follow it blindlessly. Don't change/recalculate the path if a door opens. But if something happens in the path (door closed, monster appeared) or Beethro interacts with something (hits an orb, drops a trapdoor), the automovement is stopped.

Greyman
Level: Roachling
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Hello all people.
I have posted this as "repeating keys". Here it is again.
A system to have unilimited undo without being unilimited.

(That´s why I´m "GreyMan", not black, not white)

You use 2 keys. The 1st. you hit once then make the moves, hit twice, done! it is saved. The second key repeats that sequence.
If you dye, you can try again a few times until you are sure, then you save the sequence and go on. If you dye, you hit the second key (after restarting from the nearest checkpoint), then the machine repeats the whole sequence in "quickmode" and gives you control in the exact point you determined.
This system is unlimited undo, but you must try a few times before you are sure to save, so it has some limits. It doesn´t save you from trial and error the first times, but saves you from 1 hour of dying in very complex puzzles.

You can use it also to save short movements, like the ones needed to clear a large corridor of tar 3 tiles wide, so you can save and just hold the second key for the machine to repeat the sequence for you (it is an extension to ctrl+key).

Rabscuttle
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Crazy Ivan wrote:
@Rabscuttle: I like that room, is it part of a hold you are working on ?

Thanks It'll probably appear in Tar Ballroom (when I get around to finishing it.)

Crazy Ivan
Level: Delver
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Rabscuttle wrote:

Crazy Ivan wrote:
@Rabscuttle: I like that room, is it part of a hold you are working on ?

Thanks It'll probably appear in Tar Ballroom (when I get around to finishing it.)

Dancing poppies instead of tar babies then ?

It was quite a challenging room, however there's a probably unintended trick you might want to take care of:



Its possible to solve the room without exploiting this trick but then this room is one of the hardest rooms I played in a long time (which is ofcourse good )

Kind regards,

Michael

rothro
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 46
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Hi,

eytanz wrote:
Well, for me the downside would be that I'd be required to use the mouse, thereby slowing me down (since I use the mouse with the same hand I use the keypad). Still, this would be a personal preferrence thing, not an argument against the feature.

in Angband, Larn etc this is already implemented nicely: The movement key moves one square in one direction, if you press <shift>-movement key you run in that direction following passages etc until you either see a monster, you arrive at an open space, or you toggle something, or you die by stepping on a trap.
I would really like something like this implemented, it would save beethro so much pain running smack bang into every wall there is...

Cheers,
Rothro

PS: Sorry this is a late post, I have been away a while.

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