Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

It seems to me that, in the past few weeks, we've sort of had an odd trend here when it comes to the Architecture and Holds forum. People will upload a hold on architecture, if we're lucky. The post'll be pretty short, like, 'My hold will be awesome' and the like, and they want beta testers...

Whom they either directly or indirectly brush off, before heading straight to the holds forum with a strikingly buggy hold. When the glaring issues are pointed out, we're just told 'the next hold will be better'.

Am I just crazy, or has this been happening a lot lately?

MeckMeck GRE
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 594
Registered: 01-03-2005
IP: Logged

Hmm.. I think I cant really deny the fact that there are some rather crappy holds released in the last time. Most of them werent tested. I dont know what can be done against that (remember that some Admin even added a extra warning with 10 second countdown). What comes to my mind is that when the hold is uploaded, at least 2 people (testers would work best) "sign" it as Ok. But this system is maybe also not really good....

To another problem : People comeing to the Architecture board, sumbitting a (rather buggy) hold and makeing a post "My hold is awesome !". Well, I also think its a little bit too stright. But what shall we do ? You cant forbid that !

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
Am I just crazy, or has this been happening a lot lately?

This is quite normal, at least since I joined this forum. There are a bit more holds like this lately because of JtRH, but we also have a lot more really good holds as well. It's not all bad. You can always decide not to give comments if you do not like the hold.

MeckMeck GRE wrote:
What comes to my mind is that when the hold is uploaded, at least 2 people (testers would work best) "sign" it as Ok. But this system is maybe also not really good....

This will not work because in that case I can "pretend" that I am these 2 people. Besides, there are some great holds (for example MetDROiD AE) which would never see the light of day if it needed 2 testers...

To another problem : People comeing to the Architecture board, sumbitting a (rather buggy) hold and makeing a post "My hold is awesome !". Well, I also think its a little bit too stright. But what shall we do ? You cant forbid that !

There is nothing wrong with that. Most starting architects do really believe their first hold is awesome. And there is nothing wrong with that, but usually it will still need a lot of work. For example, Tackers Trilogy(DVD Version) was unsolvable when it was put on Holds.

But, it is possible that unsolvable* Holds will be removed. There are people on this forum capable of doing this. Because, well, if people are telling you "we have 4000+ extra puzzle rooms that can be downloaded from the internet", but some of those rooms are actually unreachable because of bugs, how would you feel?

-- Tim

*) "unsolvable" Holds as in Holds that cannot be finished due to bugs.

____________________________
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---

[Last edited by Tim at 07-07-2005 11:14 PM]

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

1. Author submits hold

2. Hold added to 'pending' category

3. If someone completes the hold, add to 'confirmed' category.

4. If hold is determined to be unfinishable (this would have to be confirmed on an individual basis by some authorised party) add to 'beta' category.

5. If sections of the hold are unfinishable, but it's still possible to descend the final exit stairs, the hold could be added to 'confirmed, with problems' category. Of course, with its inaccessible rooms KDD would fall into this category

6. Author submits corrections, loop back to 2.


Then add a filter to DROD, to allow players the option to select which categories of hold they want to play.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

I'm not saying there's not a lot of awesome holds. I love lots of the holds people put up here. I'm just saying there's this odd tendency to rush onto the holds board a little too fast, and what could be really good holds are suffering for it.

What I really am trying to say, I guess, is that people aren't taking the time on Architecture that they really ought to be, and it's kinda distressing.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

Well, a part of it might be that the Holds list on the main DROD.net webpage links both to the Architect forum and the actual upload page. So if someone is shy and doesn't want to be on the forum...well, it's quite easy for them to just upload and run, and possibly not understand the significance of the Architecture forum and the testing process (notwithstanding the multiple reminders during the upload procedure).

I agree it's not ideal when this stuff happens...but the reactions of the forum community are enough warning for the rest of us who aren't so quick to get the most recent holds.

Anyway, if you hold on for a bit longer, the Smitemaster's Selection holds will be out and you'll have my hold and the revised KDD to play around with. If it wasn't for those, I'd have released some stuff already, and it would have gone to Architecture first, you can be sure of that!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

jdyer
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 331
Registered: 03-19-2003
IP: Logged

If you somehow fear the public forum, private testing can be another way to go. I received extremely wonderful and detailed feedback from private testing (thanks guys!) that led to, for example, one room going through about 10 revisions. It is something I would have never done on the forums, but since there was a personal back-and-forth conversation (via both IRC and e-mail) where something specific was being tested, I felt no problem doing this.

I will use private testing again for the sequel to A Quiet Place.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

Alas, I won't be partaking in Smitemaster's Selection, because I probably won't have JtRH for a while. Kingdom of Loathing is going to steal my 20bux away from it.

Oh well. ^_^;

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5200
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
Alas, I won't be partaking in Smitemaster's Selection, because I probably won't have JtRH for a while. Kingdom of Loathing is going to steal my 20bux away from it.

Oh well. ^_^;

Kingdom of Loathing costs $$$ now?!!>?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

No, they don't.

Now, that precious, precious cheshire bitten which is going to make me squeal with delight, now that does.

Mr. Store items.

StuartK
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 564
Registered: 06-10-2003
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:
I agree it's not ideal when this stuff happens...but the reactions of the forum community are enough warning for the rest of us who aren't so quick to get the most recent holds.

Or at least they would be, if people were always visiting the boards to check out the comments first before downloading the holds within DROD. The stats available within DROD might be an indicator, but don't provide the full picture.