krammer
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I know, it\'s pathetic, but often I feel that checkpoints just aren\'t enough of a solution to the mid-room save problem. It would be nice to have a key that allows you to take back the last one move you made. Obviously a limit on the number of turns you can undo at a time is needed - possibly only one turn? - and if you really want to make it safe, limit the number of times it can be used per room.

This may well be almost impossible - I know next to nothing when it comes to programming - but I think this would be a great frustration reliever and encourage those who really struggle with the game.

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Schik
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This is already in the current development version, and will certainly be in the next release.

I believe you will be able to undo as many moves as you want.


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admin
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Schik wrote:
This is already in the current development version, and will certainly be in the next release.

I believe you will be able to undo as many moves as you want.

Sorry to contradict you, Schik, but I\'m not sure if we will put undo into the game. Unlimited undo works when ENABLE_CHEATS is defined, but we undefine ENABLE_CHEATS for releases.

I don\'t really want to give people unlimited undos, because it encourages sloppy play and meta-gaming. Any save/restore/undo feature you add on top of the game can serve to distract from what is really fun. I know this is debatable.

Some kind of limited undo is reasonable. I don\'t like the idea of slowing down the die-and-restart sequence with an \"Undo your fatal move?\" prompt. This is the main place where people would want to use it. And it probably seems like a stupid question. \"Of course I want to undo my move so I don\'t die!\"

But if you make the default behavior at deathtime undoing the last move, I think it makes things look weird. Beethro \"dies\" and goes right back to where he was a moment earlier, leaving the player wondering what happened. \"Uhhhh... did the roach bite me and I stepped back? Did I lose hit points?\"

How about an optional safety feature that will prevent the player from making a move that will kill him? If you try to walk into a deadly square, a little skull will pop up on top of the square, your move will be canceled, and no new commands will be accepted for a few seconds (prevents a player from getting screwed up when they are entering many keystrokes together).

-Erik

Schik
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After I wrote that, I thought \"well gosh, I know it\'s there, but... will it be in the release?\"

Shoulda stuck with my instinct and let the pro answer the question.


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Schik
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One thought: Unlimited undo would be nice if people have to prove solvability of their own created holds. Sure, they should be able to do it without it, but for this case it might be nice to make it easier?

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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
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admin
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Schik wrote:
After I wrote that, I thought \"well gosh, I know it\'s there, but... will it be in the release?\"

Shoulda stuck with my instinct and let the pro answer the question.

It\'s okay, buddy. You were half right!

The secret to always being right is:


-Erik

admin
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Schik wrote:
One thought: Unlimited undo would be nice if people have to prove solvability of their own created holds. Sure, they should be able to do it without it, but for this case it might be nice to make it easier?

Yes, especially when they might need to reprove rooms after making just one change. That\'s a really good idea.

-Erik

eytanz
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Maybe this is what you already have in mind, but I think it would be best to add a \"test level\" function in the editor that will give the undo feature, but not when playing the hold proper? So if I want to playtest a room I can, but if I want to clear a room so I can advance to the next level I can\'t?

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admin
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eytanz wrote:
Maybe this is what you already have in mind, but I think it would be best to add a \"test level\" function in the editor that will give the undo feature, but not when playing the hold proper? So if I want to playtest a room I can, but if I want to clear a room so I can advance to the next level I can\'t?

There is a test room feature now. I can see enabling undo like you\'ve described.

-Erik

Malarame
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If there\'s any kind of undo feature in the game (I don\'t think there should be), then it should be limited to only one or two moves. I think that one of the challenges of many rooms is getting to the checkpoint safely and making sure you\'re in a safe position when you finally get there.

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Sokko
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One really obvious solution I see here is to allow the player to undo any move, except for a move that kills them. This way, they have to realize they\'re in trouble to undo, not just when you\'re plowing through something and you accidentally get killed. I am also an advocate of only undoing one move, because you shouldn\'t get yourself into such a bad situation that you have to hit undo twice to get out; rarely have I encountered a \"Oh drat, I\'m going to die in the next move no matter what I do\" situation that could not be solved by just undoing the last move.

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Scott
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I like it the way it is now. I\'m sure if undo was in I would have used but I\'m glad there wasn\'t one now.

Schik
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The more I think about it, I also think that there probably shouldn\'t be an undo at all (except in proving solvability). I think it would kill a lot of the fun of the game - when I use it in the current build, I can clear rooms more easily, but I feel it takes away some of the fun.


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krammer
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OK, it looks like I am outvoted.

Actually I don\'t mind. I agree that undo would make the game easier, and I wouldn\'t want to be remembered as somebody who was too lazy to play DROD through as Erik intended it to be played...

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