silver
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this was inspired by King Meckmeck's Dungeon, where he has these "secondary objectives" that "pay you additional greckles".

in addition to your score by move count, it would be neat to have a score for each room assignable by the creator, with the ability for the creator to specify secondary objectives (via scripting and a reward function in the script). at the end of a level/hold you get a "you scored X challenge points out of Y." Y = sum of all reward functions, or rather sum of highest reward function given for each room (in case you have tiered scoring)). the challenge points would list on your player/high score page, but otherwise NOT AFFECT OR ALTER THE CURRENT SCORING IN ANY WAY. just "additional" scoring.


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TripleM
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Yes! After playing through that hold and a few others I wondered if there was a nice way to actually make you want you to do optional things. Secret rooms is one way; but that can't handle these secondary objectives in a room so something like that is worth considering, anyway.

Mattcrampy
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It's doable now - using scripting, including a 'strike orb at' clause, a closed door with the orb on the other side, and a secret room beyond that, and you have a secondary objective.

Why have a new system that's fuctionally equivalent to a pre-existing system?

Then again, I guess it wouldn't hurt. There'd have to be extra coding in there to get the super challenge working, and to pick up on the points earning.

Perhaps it could be hooked up to the challenge board... that's actually doable.

Matt (reminding you that his comments are by no means official decree)

[Edited by Mattcrampy at Local Time:05-24-2005 at 10:09 AM: Removed irrelevant arguments and added useful suggestions]

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silver
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It's almost fully equivalent.

Your system would make the challenges necessary to master the hold. My system would allow a master of the hold to say to another "sure, you mastered it, but I didn't use the mimic potions in room X and have a higher score, nyah nyah".

which may or may not be amusing


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agaricus5
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silver wrote:
It's almost fully equivalent.

Your system would make the challenges necessary to master the hold. My system would allow a master of the hold to say to another "sure, you mastered it, but I didn't use the mimic potions in room X and have a higher score, nyah nyah".

which may or may not be amusing

The only problem with that is that it sort of encourages architect laziness. There is a risk that architects won't be thinking so much about enforcing solutions any longer by just using this system to cover inadequacies in their puzzles. Of course, architects should be reasonable and responsible, making this a bit of a moot point, but I guess that people who are less likely to follow this ideal as rigidly will therefore make poorer quality holds.

I think it's far better to force a player to complete a challenge by making it a solution than to say, "I'm much better than you because you didn't make life difficult for yourself."

[Edited by agaricus5 at Local Time:05-24-2005 at 09:25 PM]

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silver
Level: Smitemaster
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Perhaps. Perhaps not. If there were no places for challenges, there wouldn't be a challenge board. Alternate solutions to puzzles in KDD would be bug reports (or, perhaps, now that the alternate proves some more difficult method is possible, the original/intended solution is the bug?)


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agaricus5
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silver wrote:
Perhaps. Perhaps not. If there were no places for challenges, there wouldn't be a challenge board. Alternate solutions to puzzles in KDD would be bug reports (or, perhaps, now that the alternate proves some more difficult method is possible, the original/intended solution is the bug?)

No, but there is a difference between the current system now and what you're proposing. Right now, a challenge is just a challenge. Nothing more - you can complete them just for your own personal satisfaction.

With this "challenge points" idea, challenges are made more important because they get a number attached to them; i.e. you become disadvantaged psychologically if you don't complete them yourself:

Your system would make the challenges necessary to master the hold. My system would allow a master of the hold to say to another "sure, you mastered it, but I didn't use the mimic potions in room X and have a higher score, nyah nyah".

which may or may not be amusing

Admittedly, most people won't be affected (hopefully) by scrabbling for points, but I guess that even if this is the case, it's not the same as competing to be efficient. While efficiency is a universal idea (you can always have a most optimised room), the idea of a "perfect" or even "better" solution is far more indistinct - what determines which is the better solution?

I guess the question to be asked is, "which is more important - solving a room your own way, or solving it how someone else wants you to?"

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