Note: This post is entirely my opinion, so I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer; only that this is my viewpoint.
SbCl3 wrote:
Is making the game more complicated a good thing? I think I read somewhere that there would be tons more game elements and 17 different monsters in JtRH. If it gets almost any more complicated than this, the rules and complications in just how the things move is going to become more equal to the strategy, and possibly, users will go back to Caravel drod or stop playing all together.
But the fact is, there are only a few things you actually need to learn:
1. DROD is tile-based; everything occupies one or a whole number of tiles.
2. DROD is turn based; everything moves only once per move (no action reflexes required), and the number of moves made is entirely dependant on you, the player.
3. You move first; everything else will only move after you, so whatever you do will be calculated and put into action first.
After that, it's all a matter of getting to know what the monsters and objects do in general, and since this game is programmed, there will only be a few basic rules that each monsters has to follow anyway; there is no randomness in the code (I believe).
Please...after JtRH, I advise you to stop making the game so much more complicated....video games that require you to know 16 controller buttons and all sorts of combinations are no fun (hence love for NES games and such). Drod will become no fun once the game gets so complicated that it takes more than one hour to figure out.
First, why would learning about new elements be no fun? Sure, it might make the game more complicated, but all elements would be logical, you can experiment and discover in the editor, and you'd have unlimited attempts at finding out how something works. If at first a monster appears confusing, you'll have all the time and tools you need to try to figure out how it works, and if the concern is not individual monsters, but more the memorising of many, then if you play enough, you'll eventually get the hang of it. Also, if you're not attracted to such complexity in the beginning, then there's no reason why you can't just stick with the basic monsters until you're happy to use them, and then move on. I personally think that it's better to have too much complexity that you know is there, but you can just ignore it with no detriment to gameplay, than it is to have too little and so not be able to access it when you want to progress.
As for the controls, there are only 13 keys you have to learn the use of, you'll have an infinite time to make such moves, and no such things as "
combinations"
exist, so I don't quite agree DROD has the same of complexity as an action game.
Making more holds
There may come a time when even an apparently inexhaustible idea might run out, so innovation would be the key to expanding it greatly. One thing that makes comparing DROD with a game like chess unfeasible is the fact that chess is a two-player game, and DROD only a one-player game. In chess, much of the novelty arises not only from the many possible positions of a game board, but also the unpredictable nature of your opponent. If you played a completely predictable person, Chess would quickly become boring, since you could easily win your games after a while. With the unpredictability of a good opponent, however, the game is transformed by the psycho-analysis you must perform on the other person to win. In fact, the game of Chess is far more complex than you think, since it is not just the simplicity of the rules that make the challenge, but it's more understanding the mind of your opponent, in order that you can beat him at the game.
DROD, on the other hand, with its highly predictable nature (with the exception of serpents and certain types of monster order puzzles) will eventually need more complexity to keep it going. A room used in a hold will always be the same forever, and so to make something more interesting, you would need to use a new idea or make an unusual variation on the theme to do so; you can't just copy the room and hope that somehow the monsters will move in a different, completely unexpected way. The predictability of DROD is its own limitation; you cannot make the game more complex than the code that makes it up (whereas in Chess it is the mind of your opponent that's the limitation on complexity) so there will be a lower limit on the number of new puzzles it is possible to make.
More level graphics/themes
Making the music better / more music available
Improving the content and design of drod.net / caravelgames.com(net)
Making the forum a little less blue / better design
Adding more stuff to the store
Interesting ideas, but I'd say these are sort of secondary, and that if prioritised, would actually impact the novelty of DROD.
Imagine that the developers immediately stopped work on anything fundamentally new to DROD forever, and only worked on these things. Sure, after a year, we'd see all sorts of nice things, maybe new scenery, a radically new site, amazing music, and so on, but for DROD itself, what good would it do for the actual game? You could try loading 100 different styles one after another to fill a hold with, but you'll eventually get bored of looking at the same old thing over and over. So what then? You could try to make new holds, but what if all the ideas are exhausted? Then what?
If new game elements are made, at least don't make them monsters with new moves...I really think black gates are a great idea, for example, but new serpants with new patterns that you have to learn completely different strategies for aren't as necessary.
I wouldn't stop playing if new elements were made, but I just think that less users would play the game, and I really think the things in my list are more important. Once JtRH is released, I think these are what work should be done on.
Indeed, after JtRH, I agree work should be done on other things not entirely related to the game itself, but not forever. There, like I said before, is only a certain amount you can do. After that, something should be introduced to keep it going; to make it stay interesting.
To quote the title...
The Joy of Simplicity
...I can say that you, in fact, are more highly likely to thrive on complexity than simplicity. You are constantly analysing and adapting to the world all around you, though you may not be aware of it. Even the most simple of social interactions, like greeting a person, carries with it an undercurrent of complexity. In that one encounter you would ask yourself (subconsciously) many questions to do with your interactions like, "
Who is this person?"
, "
What could I do to him?"
, and "
What might he do to me if I do it?"
many times over in order to decide what the best course of action is. In fact, sometimes we look for simple ideas in order to reveal the complexity behind them or the complexity they can generate, in all sorts of situations, not just ones involving people.
(This, by the way, is one theory that accounts for why humans have such unusually large and developed brains compared to other creatures in the natural world. Basically, the theory states that the evolutionary pressure was put on us not by our environments so much, but more other people; we evolved larger brains in order to cope better in increasingly complex social situations.)
Of course, I'm not saying that simplicity is a bad thing, for I agree that in time, as DROD grows, it will require longer for newer players to learn how to play, so greater attempts to lessen the learning curve would be necessary. However, as human beings, it is an innate part of our behavoiur that we look for innovation, so often, a forced reduction in complexity does nothing more than stifle development in one particular area of our lives. If we get bored with something, we'll just go off to look for something else to do.
[Edited by agaricus5 at
Local Time:03-30-2005 at 10:30 PM]
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