leventdal
Level: Delver
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Registered: 05-27-2003
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Like tar mother, this moving creature can reproduce 2 amobea babies.

Moving only horizontally or vertically crabs can be another creature type. They may be used to block smarter ones.

Flies that can make only circular movement can be implemented.

Crocodiles have to rest after making a number of movement.

Guardians will not leave a certain area but just defend it.

Grasshopper can move 2 blocks at each turn.

On walls darts that will be activated by stepping a block can be placed. Those darts can be used to kill other creatures.

Beethro can pick shields in some levels. Also another idea he may have a bow.

[Edited by leventdal on 06-16-2003 at 01:32 AM]

[Edited by leventdal on 06-22-2003 at 11:29 PM]

zex20913
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I think you need to expand some more on these ideas. Some questions I got immediately were:

Why only two amoeba babies? Do they reproduce like the amoeba? Does the amoeba move towards or away from Beethro?

How would the flies move circularly? Do you mean diagonal?

What puzzles could be inspired by crocodiles, that could not be inspired by the basic roach?

The Guardian idea has been done before...kinda. Guards/Prisoners on the sourceforge page.

The Grasshopper idea has been done, and discussed much.

I think there was something on the darts...but I'm not sure. Would the dart be immediate? Would it move one per turn?

How would the shield face with respect to the sword? Would it be full-body?

I strongly dislike the bow idea, and I don't think the crocodile is that great either. I would say no bow, because that immediately involves arrows, and switching weapons. The core of DROD is "dude with a sword". The bow would touch upon that core.

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Mattcrampy
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I don't like the idea of crabs - how would they be used?

However, flies I like. They'd move either on the diagonal or the orthogonal (like a snake), and it would switch every turn. So if a fly was two squares away from Beethro, it'd wouldn't be able to kill him in two turns like a roach. If you introduce roaches and flies together, you have problems as the roaches would try and queue-jump.

This of course raises the problem of which way do flies move if they can't move directly towards Beethro that turn? My suggestion is that counts for north, south, east and west are taken, and each square is valued (similarly to the code already in placed for goblin movement), but the criteria is the total amount of moves minus the relevant sum of movement counters. So if the fly was evaluating moving northwest, say, it'd add up the amount of north moves and the amount of west moves, and subtract that from the total. This would be added (maybe 5 times) to how close it is to Beethro, like a roach. Maybe it has a tendency to flee from the sword, so if it's a dead heat, it'll run away.

The tendency, for those who feel woozy from maths, is that the fly would move towards Beethro, moving so that its movement averages out in the end. Possibly if Beethro's on the other side of a room, the fly will start to get bored and wander off using these maths, but then that's another challenge.

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leventdal
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 31
Registered: 05-27-2003
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I think you need to expand some more on these ideas. Some questions I got immediately were:

Why only two amoeba babies? Do they reproduce like the amoeba? Does the amoeba move towards or away from Beethro?

How would the flies move circularly? Do you mean diagonal?

What puzzles could be inspired by crocodiles, that could not be inspired by the basic roach?

The Guardian idea has been done before...kinda. Guards/Prisoners on the sourceforge page.

The Grasshopper idea has been done, and discussed much.

I think there was something on the darts...but I'm not sure. Would the dart be immediate? Would it move one per turn?

How would the shield face with respect to the sword? Would it be full-body?

I strongly dislike the bow idea, and I don't think the crocodile is that great either. I would say no bow, because that immediately involves arrows, and switching weapons. The core of DROD is "dude with a sword". The bow would touch upon that core.

Indeed I wanted to give a general idea.

Amobea can reproduce into two (to the sides). Otherwise there will be lots in a single room. The number produced by single amobea will be 2^n (n reproduction). Amobea will move toward beethro as the child and parent will have same characteristics, there is no point in moving away.

Flies will move circular. Like north east, south east, south west, north west. When a turn is completed, it may then move one step to beethro then do the same movement (clock counter clock wise)

Crocodiles will give an extra time to turn against him by this rest. A basic roach won't let this in open area. Also he may be used to block a passage to gain time. Also this rest may give Beethro the advantage to get rid of him in some corners.

Darts will move one per turn (or two, three) being immediate will be against turn based concept.

A full-body shield will be against the strategy issues a bit. But if the shield is used on any side of Beethro this will create additional defense.

I would be against the bow idea if the game was real time but being turn based, this will bring many different things to think of. A bow may not only aim to kill but to block or to change direction. Also bow can be a potion like mimics and can be used in certain levels. Also in my opinion for most dungeon fighters a bow is a must have

I don't like the idea of crabs - how would they be used?

However, flies I like. They'd move either on the diagonal or the orthogonal (like a snake), and it would switch every turn. So if a fly was two squares away from Beethro, it'd wouldn't be able to kill him in two turns like a roach. If you introduce roaches and flies together, you have problems as the roaches would try and queue-jump.

This of course raises the problem of which way do flies move if they can't move directly towards Beethro that turn? My suggestion is that counts for north, south, east and west are taken, and each square is valued (similarly to the code already in placed for goblin movement), but the criteria is the total amount of moves minus the relevant sum of movement counters. So if the fly was evaluating moving northwest, say, it'd add up the amount of north moves and the amount of west moves, and subtract that from the total. This would be added (maybe 5 times) to how close it is to Beethro, like a roach. Maybe it has a tendency to flee from the sword, so if it's a dead heat, it'll run away.

The tendency, for those who feel woozy from maths, is that the fly would move towards Beethro, moving so that its movement averages out in the end. Possibly if Beethro's on the other side of a room, the fly will start to get bored and wander off using these maths, but then that's another challenge.

Crabs will generally be an easy to escape monster. But they may be used to block some other monsters. A great number of roaches will line behing a crab. Also tunnels can be blocked by them.

[Edited by leventdal on 06-16-2003 at 09:50 PM]

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
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True on the bow being an essential adventuring item, but there's two reason why this won't work as well as the big ol' sword:
* It says in the story that all Beethro's got is a really big sword.
* It greatly reduces the challenge, rather than adding some interesting gameplay options. Much of the difficulty in DROD is derived from the fact that you can't deal with this guy here and that guy there at the same time without being really clever. A bow would pretty much kill any chance at all of making Wraithwings interesting, seeing as they just stay away and it's your job to lure them into a trap.

Do the amoeba produce faster? What can you do with amoeba that you can't do with roaches, and do they reproduce every turn? And if that, how are you supposed to kill the damn thing?

As for crabs and crocodiles, generally narrow corridors are not a problem, and the design of DROD thus far has how wide open spaces to be far more lethal. Although creature that block corridors do facilitate the advent of creatures coming at you from two different sides, you can easily cook up some way of getting around that using elements we already have.

I can't recall the consensus on darts ala Indy. It was discussed, but I can't recall the conclusion. Cross your fingers it's in.

Matt

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What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

leventdal
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 31
Registered: 05-27-2003
IP: Logged

True on the bow being an essential adventuring item, but there's two reason why this won't work as well as the big ol' sword:
* It says in the story that all Beethro's got is a really big sword.
* It greatly reduces the challenge, rather than adding some interesting gameplay options. Much of the difficulty in DROD is derived from the fact that you can't deal with this guy here and that guy there at the same time without being really clever. A bow would pretty much kill any chance at all of making Wraithwings interesting, seeing as they just stay away and it's your job to lure them into a trap.

Do the amoeba produce faster? What can you do with amoeba that you can't do with roaches, and do they reproduce every turn? And if that, how are you supposed to kill the damn thing?

As for crabs and crocodiles, generally narrow corridors are not a problem, and the design of DROD thus far has how wide open spaces to be far more lethal. Although creature that block corridors do facilitate the advent of creatures coming at you from two different sides, you can easily cook up some way of getting around that using elements we already have.

I can't recall the consensus on darts ala Indy. It was discussed, but I can't recall the conclusion. Cross your fingers it's in.

Matt

Amobea will be something between tar mother and tar babies. In other words moving tar mother. When you kill all tar mothers, tar baby production depends on you. If there is only one tar mother the main aim becomes killing it. But each amobea is a threat by itself. If you can't kill an amobea in time, the threat doubles. Its movement should probably be simple like a roach otherwise it will be very hard to kill.

The doubling will create two other amobea which may form out of Beethro's hide. (For example when there is just a single block between Beethro and amobea, the reproduction will form a new amobea that is able to move towards Beethro.)

The reproduction of a single amobea will create 2, then 4, then 8, then 16 amobea and so on. (2^n) So the reproduction rate should not be high otherwise the only rooms it can be used is labyrinth type rooms. (Also may be it can only reproduce in some areas where it can feed)

Bows can be like potions. You will pick them up and have to drop it when entering other rooms. Or arrow number can be limited.

By the way "hedgehog" monster can use his own arrows.

[Edited by leventdal on 06-16-2003 at 10:54 PM]