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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (0)  


EDIT: Sigh, of course it ended up on the next page.

[Last edited by kieranmillar at 09-07-2025 11:34 PM]
09-07-2025 at 11:33 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+1)  
Rules question:

Can outer map edge walls (not the "internal" walls that connect to other rooms!) be changed into pits? Since it's supposed to be a gorge and all?

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09-09-2025 at 12:45 AM
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Pachy
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+1)  
I was also curious about the same thing.

In addition, I wonder if placing obstacles on the room edge walls are permitted for similar cosmetic purposes.
09-09-2025 at 05:13 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (0)  
Obstacles, yes. Changing walls to pits or water, no.
09-09-2025 at 06:52 AM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+1)  
I decided to replay the first level again before starting to build my rooms for level 2. Here are my stats (a bit optimized but still plenty of stuff I could have done better) after killing the boss and before the drain.

2902 HP
69 ATK
71 DEF
997 GR
Wooden sword/Wooden Shield
18/9/3/1/28

In the inventory I have a pickaxe, the portable crate and one scroll of might; I do not have the sting. I could have used these to optimize better level 1, but they might be better for level 2.
I was not a huge fan was on the boss, since it is mainly designed for an atk route.

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09-09-2025 at 10:53 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+1)  
Inspired by Red-XIII, I also decided to do another run before working on my new rooms.

Click here to view the secret text


940 Greckles remaining.

This was after the tax of:
12 Yellow Keys
7 Green Keys
3 Blue Keys
and 250 Greckles

I would be going into the next level with the Portable Crate, 1 Scroll of Might, and Sting in my inventory.

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[Last edited by mauvebutterfly at 09-10-2025 01:42 AM]
09-10-2025 at 01:38 AM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+1)  
My score after aggressive optimization:

9330 hp
69 attack
71 def
11 yellow
2 green
1 skel
36 digs
277 greckles (I made a few more 50hp for 25 greckle trades than was probably wise for level 2)

I had technically not killed the rattlesnake when this score was made: I think it would be ideal if the scorepoint was after a point of no return to reduce that sort of abuse (although I guess scoring would always kill the snake to dig out the attack which is positive anyway).

Will leave level with sting, crate, pick, wooden equipment and 2 scrolls of might because 1 is used on rattlesnake and another was wasted by accident.

Aside: I'm amused by how holding a scroll of might will probably be meta for any optimization scoring. Makes a case for scoring the turn after a boss fight in case we think that's silly.

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09-11-2025 at 02:21 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (0)  
I don't understand what you mean by abuse. What am I preventing by putting the scorepoint behind force arrows or whatever?
09-11-2025 at 07:30 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (0)  
The halfway point has passed, so here's a reminder. 6 people still remaining to submit their rooms.
09-11-2025 at 01:36 PM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+1)  
kieranmillar wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by abuse. What am I preventing by putting the scorepoint behind force arrows or whatever?

I mostly meant it creates slightly weird situations of putting stuff off but the player was going to do that anyway. I was kinda thinking of how ACR c1 did the scorepoints and just thought it was odd that it wasn't done the same way here but now that I think about it, nothing really changes.

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09-11-2025 at 02:37 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (0)  
I see. In ACR I added in the force arrow and autosave to make it more obvious for new players that you can't return. I suppose I should do the same here, no harm in doing so and it's nice to stick to an "established trend"* of what it looks like when levels are going to be non-backtrackable.

* One person doing something is now all it takes to be an established trend. Source: me.

[Last edited by kieranmillar at 09-12-2025 05:18 PM]
09-12-2025 at 05:18 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Building Phase } (+2)  
Another thing that might be worth considering is that the tax is kind of a jumpscare for the player. I guess it's fine, but when I first got there I just had exactly the number of yellow keys required, and I think I would have been quite annoyed if I was short, especially given how arbitrary the tax feels.

I'm not sure if there's a better way of doing things, but I just wanted to voice a concern over this.

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09-13-2025 at 12:17 AM
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kieranmillar
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File: Hold Anonymous 4 v5.drh (64.8 KB)
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Alright, here's the Round 2 first draft. This is mostly unedited from everyone's submissions, however did add a bunch of Inventory tokens and also move some out of the way of potential fast travel paths. Let me know if you're unhappy with any of these adjustments in your rooms.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I added some _MyDescription to some things.

[Last edited by kieranmillar at 09-14-2025 07:30 PM]
09-14-2025 at 07:22 PM
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kieranmillar
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File: Hold Anonymous 4 v6.drh (66 KB)
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
To facilitate with testing, here's a v6:

- Added warp staircases to the entrance room of Skelly Beach
- Added some starting stat stalwarts and spare equipment for testing to the entrance room of level 2. Bump into a character to get some starting equipment and then take the spare equips on the other side of the room to fill out what should be in your inventory.
- Moved the inventory token in 7S2W as per author request.
09-14-2025 at 08:16 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Early observation from playing:
Click here to view the secret text


EDIT:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-14-2025 09:27 PM]
09-14-2025 at 09:18 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
I can confirm it is possible to reach the end of the level, although of course only with a mandatory pickaxe use, which of course should be fixed. (EDIT: Turns out to not be mandatory, the tar mother can be killed to open the black door)

I notice we have 2 DEF brain monsters. Might be nice to pick one of them (Steel Brain vs Anti-Brain) and change over the other as they have different stats.

The Gorge George Goblins have almost the same colour scheme as King Kobolds, so we might want to change that.

The Hobgoblins in 3S2E look too much like rock golems imo.

It's weird that the Purplexing Spiders in 3S1W are Goblin type.

It's unfortunate that the Forgotten Experiments in 4S2E are Construct type because the base construct types are mistproof while these ones are all about reducing their def with mist. I'd prefer if these were golem or baby type.

No. 3 Moles have already confused people in CNet about how they work. Don't know if something more explicit is warranted, how do others feel about this? IMPORTANT If not on Steam, please update to 2.0.4 to prevent this room from causing errors and potentially crashing your game.

[Last edited by kieranmillar at 09-14-2025 10:56 PM]
09-14-2025 at 09:53 PM
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Someone Else
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
I'm not completely opposed to removing the wall at (4,11) and (4,12) in 6S1E, which would make the level navigable. Not my first choice, but it wouldn't wreck the room.
09-14-2025 at 10:33 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
More thoughts:

6S2E yellow door is unnecessary and can be removed. Freely traversable on both ends already.

8S1E yellow and green doors and pressure plate can probably be removed. If you want to spend a blue key to go south in 7S1E then doesn't seem right to have to spend more keys here, given how cheap it is to circumnavigate them anyway.
09-14-2025 at 11:12 PM
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kieranmillar
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File: Hold Anonymous 4 v7.drh (66 KB)
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Here's v7 with a bare minimum change to make the level more traversable, plus some other misc changes room authors have requested.

- 2S: Changed open black door to red.
- 4S: Added wall and orthosquares to bottom-left corner section
- 6S1E: Knocked out a wall

Regarding the second half and traversability
Click here to view the secret text

09-14-2025 at 11:26 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Maybe add a tunnel between (6,2) and (6,10) in 7S1W?

This was noted in the chat, but reposting it here so discussion can continue: the almost free 20 DEF in 1S1W is going to throw off the balance across the entire level. Should that be fixed (change to another reward maybe)?

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09-15-2025 at 01:11 AM
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mxvladi
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
It's unfortunate that the Forgotten Experiments in 4S2E are Construct type because the base construct types are mistproof while these ones are all about reducing their def with mist. I'd prefer if these were golem or baby type.

The logic for them using construct sprite is precisely because the real constructs are mistproof; these things are "forgotten experiments" because they're faulty attempts to re-create and improve on original constructs, and due to being faulty they've gained vulnerability to mist during their creation.

...yeah to be fair gameplay-wise that reason is irrelevant. Golem sprite should work fine for them, too. Baby sprite will look identical to gel baby without further tweaks to recoloring. Another possibility is gray man sprite, but it might need tweaks to recoloring too (doesn't look distinctive enough with only _MyHue change IMO)

also I keep forgetting about _MyDescription variable, so one potential alternative is to emphasize their mist weakness using that
09-15-2025 at 01:40 AM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Attached: Proposed changes to 1S1E. Notable things:

Click here to view the secret text


Opinion about defense-doubling monsters:
Click here to view the secret text


And...I think connecting the tar area to the south part of 7S1W as Nuntar's suggested would actually work better than my earlier guess.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-15-2025 04:13 AM]
09-15-2025 at 04:02 AM
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Pachy
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Oof, I'm not sure if I like how it's so easy to lock yourself out of the rewards for the Forgotten Experiments room (4S2E), especially when it involves requiring you to open a blue door to get a full room clear, something that the player may come back to the room later for.

I suppose it is my fault for not actually checking what the orb does before assuming it'd open the tar gates, but I wonder if perhaps the doors can be replaced with walls or cliffs, so that it is more immediately clear to the player that you're not getting the rewards via conventional means.
09-15-2025 at 02:17 PM
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komachi
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+2)  
Walkthrough for the second level finished (v5). Isn't optimized at all, but can give an idea of overall stats.

Stats
Click here to view the secret text


Overall, the second level is more balanced than first level, keys are more tight than previous level which is pretty good, only had a few yellow keys, a couple of green keys and a blue key.
Major balance flaw might be the 1S1W room potions and gem. but I didn't feel that it makes the rest of the level very easy at all.

Some comments:
Click here to view the secret text

For my rooms, if possible in 6S2W add some walls and make the platform size 4 blocks to avoid getting the shovels and green key with it.
09-15-2025 at 07:57 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Random comments:

Overall, I really liked the level and the amount of choices you are given due to the number of accessories and where to use them.

I did not find the level trivial, but the 20 def gem in 1S1W definitely helped a lot.

Greckles were interesting in the first half of the level, as you don’t have enough to open everything, but in the second half you can just open everything since you’ll have ton of money; thus, 6S2E is not a problem money-wise.

Changing between the steel staff and the goblin biter every time to see if could save some health was a bit annoying.

Some things I did:
Click here to view the secret text


Requests:
If I am standing on top of the accessory square, every move, like bumping or rotating the sword, brings you back to the inventory; is there a way to prevent this?

Could you add an inventory square in 8S1W (my room)?

Stats before the boss (could exchange a lot of keys/shovels for HP)
16108 HP
207 ATK (goblin biter)
253 DEF (wooden shield)
11/7/1/1
70 shovels
6161 GR
14729 REP
Inventory: Wooden sword, Steel staff
Accessory: Invisibility potion, two portable crates, 3 scrolls of might, 2 extend-o bridge

Depending on level 3, I can take the lucky greckle (for an invisibility potion), or save the wall walking for something else.


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There's just this one, just this rock.
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09-16-2025 at 10:52 PM
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bomber50
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Stats at Level 2 Boss (no items equipped):
Click here to view the secret text

Didn't optimize this that well.

The navigation between the two sections of 7S/7S1E is clunky.

The Kobold Kings in 2S can attack you if you try to traverse from east to west, or vice versa.

I did not collect the Goblin-Biter in 4S2E, and I probably should have for 20+ ATK. The text was too long and the most important information (how the black doors open) is stuck in the middle.
09-17-2025 at 05:05 AM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
I beat the rock giant, and went back and got everything it felt worth getting!
I entered the room from my own newly-made playthrough of the first level, starting with:
Click here to view the secret text


And my final stats were:
Click here to view the secret text


Notes about my run's end-state:
Click here to view the secret text


Opinions about the level itself (very off-the-cuff! Don't take too seriously):
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-17-2025 10:31 PM]
09-17-2025 at 05:16 AM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Stats in level 2 boss room:

Click here to view the secret text


Lots of trades still available for health/keys, especially if I'm willing to use an accessory.

I was able to get through the tar mother only spending a single green key. I fought it with one brain active, and it didn't seem too bad.

Steel Staff having defense on it was annoying. Didn't like constantly swapping weapons to check damage. I donated the staff for the permanent +10DEF instead of having to think about it again. Obviously, depending on the next level, it might be worth keeping weapons with special properties around, but I donated every weapon I had other than the Goblin-Biter, and I donated all my armor. I even donated the Mistblade.

Getting the Lucky Greckle before cleaning up the enemies was probably unnecessary, but it only cost me 1 yellow key, 1 green key, and the invisibility potion. This probably means that that's the cost of never having to care about money again going forward. This risks level 3 being unplayable without the Lucky Greckle or the Lucky Greckle being useless, depending on how much money we end up needing.

I think there's something wrong with the script of the perfectly average enemy. Blowing up some of the fegundos increased his stats, which I don't think was supposed to happen.

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[Last edited by mauvebutterfly at 09-17-2025 07:52 AM]
09-17-2025 at 07:49 AM
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PigmyWubba
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
Just finished the second level, I realize I never posted my stats from the first level so here they are.
Click here to view the secret text


I started using my own stats.

Stats going into the boss room in level 2 after cleaning everything up.
Click here to view the secret text


Those stats are with the equipment included.

I'm doing a self imposed challenge run to collect all the single use accessories without actually using them, I'm out of inventory space and had to ditch the 4 scrolls of might around the level but didn't use them.

There are still a handful of key for key trades, including the one for 1 BK for 3 GK, and a ton of key for health or shovel for health trades around the level.

I went west at the bottom part of the level and killed the brained tar mother blob to proceed without using any of my hoarded accessories.

I think the balance here is pretty good, the 20 defense at the start might be slightly too cheap, but it might make the rest of the level significantly harder if you make it too much more expensive.

The adder protecting the lucky greckle is pretty much impossible to kill, you can still get past him with the invisibility potion though so I'm not sure if this needs to be changed.

My run definitely has a ton of optimization room left, I did some small amount if optimization but there is so much possibility space I'm sure I missed a lot.

For my own rooms. 3S- no notes, works as intended. 8S1E- I missed "to" between "due" and "the" on the bottom scroll explaining the Extend-O-Bridge. I'm fine with removing the yellow and green door along with the plate opening them on the top side of the room.

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[Last edited by PigmyWubba at 09-17-2025 05:08 PM]
09-17-2025 at 05:02 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Hold Anonymous 4 { Round 2 Fixing Phase } (+1)  
mauvebutterfly wrote: Steel Staff having defense on it was annoying. Didn't like constantly swapping weapons to check damage.
Hard disagree, but I guess it's a matter of taste.

I think there's something wrong with the script of the perfectly average enemy. Blowing up some of the fegundos increased his stats, which I don't think was supposed to happen.
Their stats were not being initialized correctly on room entry, so the first monster killed was actually initializing them. You wouldn't see anything strange if you stabbed the roach first, then blew up the fegundos. My script update attached to that earlier post will fix this. After the fix, at worst they may look strange on "turn 0" as you first walk into the room.

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Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 09-17-2025 08:50 PM]
09-17-2025 at 08:47 PM
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