kikuchiyo
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 175
Registered: 04-01-2012
IP: Logged

File: TDoKH Unfriendly Neighbours 5N1E Victory.demo (21.5 KB)
Downloaded 8 times.
License: Public Domain

In The Descent of King Hesper, Unfriendly Neighbours 5N1E there is a mirror in the corner that doesn't break on the first time when stabbed with the dagger, only on the second stab (even though there is a mirror breaking sound effect on the first stab too). Is there a rational explanation for this?

This was observed on Linux, DROD version 5.1.0.6513. See attached demo.

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1496
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

There is a rational explanation: the tile has two mirrors on it. This is difficult to know prior to 5.1.1, since covered items weren't displayed in tooltips before then.

Of course this situation shouldn't be possible to create. So there's probably a bug potentially allowing arbitary T-layer items to be covered by mirrors. This is not desirable.

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

kikuchiyo
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 175
Registered: 04-01-2012
IP: Logged

Interesting! Both the two stabs and the two breaking sounds make sense then.

This breaks my mental model of DROD somewhat, though: I thought of game squares as having a "floor" that may have multiple types of modifier layers over it (tokens, arrows, ortho squares etc.), and a "volume" that may hold zero or one item or monster, but not more.

There is a level in TDoKH where mirrors or kegs can be placed under the player with build commands (and there may have been earlier examples), so this mental model was already weakened, but still, it was surprising to learn that two mirrors can, in fact, be on top of each other.

Is it at least true that it is not possible to for two items/monsters to occupy the same square, if they weren't originally placed there, or by a script?

Also, can this effect have further, unexpected puzzle potential?

For example, stacks of monsters that have to be stabbed multiple times, or a monster that carries an other monster or item on its back. Is this latter thing even possible?

hyperme
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1496
Registered: 06-23-2006
IP: Logged

The strange double-mirror is a consequence of the way the "transparent" layer works, which is the one with tokens, fuses, tarstuff, potions and the pushable objects. Since you can push mirrors and kegs over certain other items, there's effectively an extra layer for covered items. However, mirrors aren't supposed to cover other mirrors. Even scripted building follows that rule. There is presumably a missing check somewhere in the editor code that has allowed this illegal stacking to occur.

Multiple monsters can't be stacked (with the exception of invisible NPCs, which don't really exist in the room), and the game tends to get very upset if something goes wrong enough to allow that to happen.

____________________________
[Insert witty comment here]
Qzvlkx?

disoriented
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2517
Registered: 08-07-2007
IP: Logged

File: dbl.png (95.8 KB)
Downloaded 71 times.
License: Public Domain

Mirror mirror on the floor, reflecting aumtlich beams I can't ignore,
In the same square, they both collide, a bug we can't let slide.
Mirror, mirror on the floor, two reflections, one heretofore,
Fix the code, make it right, so only one shines in the light.



____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.