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Caravel Forum : DROD RPG Boards : RPG Architecture : Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (A 25 Level Hold, with about 4 rooms each level)
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (+3)  
azb wrote: I suppose I can add some obstacles here and there, but I stand by having lighting everywhere like in the harder holds you like to play will make looking at the level slightly harder/more annoying, and you didn't mention Break Out of Jail! but it's a classic example of the DROD RPG holds most expert RPG players like to play, just like Fetch the Pie which you did mention.

I want the hold to focus on the actual combat and mechanics first and foremost, and having tons of decorations and long winded story everywhere would distract from what I want to do, but I suppose if I want to focus on only the mechanics I can remove the dialogue.
You have completely failed to understand the feedback. I haven't asked you to put in lighting effects and tons of obstacles. You don't have to do either of these to make things look better. You got a strawman stuck in your head and you can't look past it.

Your holds used to be better than this, look at Tower of Chaos. The first level is pretty simple but the gameplay is better and the aesthetics are great. It's got a real sense of place, the outer grounds of the tower you're going to spend the rest of the hold in. Really makes you feel like you're going to go on an adventure, it doesn't take much. To use an example of a very simple non-distracting lighting effect you yourself used, at the start of the second level of the Tower of Chaos, the entrance staircase behind you has a single light on it that looks like the sunlight from the previous level that took place outdoors is shining in behind you. It's simple, it's effective, what happened to the creative azb you used to be?

I think your quality took a major downturn by adhering rigidly to the Big Epic List of Ideas™. You don't seem to make holds anymore by starting from a position of fun, at least, it doesn't come across that way when you play it. It feels like you're playing through a list, because that's what it is. Lists are boring, and these ones especially are too long.

If you have been trying to put lots of effort into this, it definitely does not come across in your work. Nobody can read your mind or see what goes on beyond the final end product. If it gives off the wrong impression, then the take home point of the feedback is you need to make it not give off this impression.

azb wrote: Again, if you point out actual issues like you are doing now and Nuntar did I can understand, but accusing me of posting slop without actually specifying why it's bad is just a personal attack and would not be well received by anyone, especially if they are actually trying to put in effort to make something decent like me and not just posting random monsters everywhere war style.
I did point these issues out in the videos my dude. I talked multiple times about the skippable scorepoints and how it means you have to go back and redo the game multiple times for each scorepoint. I remember saying this. I talked about the brains in both videos, even right at the start of the second video (although admittedly that was more about hiding collectible items underneath the enemy, but look, there's me mentioning issues). You got hot under the collar about my frustration at the end (which came about from the experience of playing this hold, I was very positive when I started, especially in the first video) and forgot everything I said as a result.

Feedback doesn't have to be pointing out lists of issues. Just saying the hold is bad is valid feedback. It's up to you whether or not you wish to reflect on responses, try to work out what went wrong, and how you can improve for next time, or you can just assume there's some conspiracy against you and act like a child in HA chat with endless digs against perceived slights. It's your choice.
07-03-2024 at 12:04 AM
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azb
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (+1)  
Okay, I get the idea is that I should use lighting in simple ways, and I can use more than one floor tile and have some obstacles here and there, but I thought you were thinking about something like Break Out of Jail Imperial Defense with dark lighting that's too hard to see anything without a light in, or the Good, Bad and Ugly contest where you have tons and tons of obstacles everywhere for no better reason than they can be used.

And I will stand by if you call something bad without explaining why, then there is not much ways the person can learn to improve so it isn't a perceived dig, it's a real insult if you can't say something more constructive, but fortunately you did so I will take it in context.

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[Last edited by azb at 07-03-2024 12:50 AM]
07-03-2024 at 12:48 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (+2)  
If a chef makes a cake and asks a friend to taste it and the friend thinks it tastes bad, is it the job of the friend to explain exactly what went wrong with the recipe? They might not even know how to cook and so have absolutely no clue what the issue is, only that the final product wasn't right. This is a creative artistic endeavor. Sometimes there aren't logical answers to explain. In these sorts of endeavors, often the best way to learn is from your own mistakes and you have to feel your own way around what tradeoffs give the best outcomes for your own personal circumstances. If it turns out people think a design you thought was simple and elegant just came across as lazy in the eyes of others, it'll ultimately have to be up to you to decide on how to change your approach to deal with that, and what sort of way of building things returns the correct time-and-effort to response tradeoffs.

The feedback came in the form of an unedited live commentary video while I was focusing on playing the game. People tend to like these as it lets people see what actually happens when somebody else encounters things for the first time, how they tackle the game, the outcomes of the decisions they made, and their initial impressions of things. But it's not like a forum post where lots of time can be spent reflecting or massaging the words before making a post. Sometimes the things they say may even be wrong because the don't have the full context of the final product yet. That's just the nature of feedback in this form, you'll need to use a bit of your own judgement on how you wish to process it.

And of course, you don't have to please me specifically at all if you don't want to. I'm not one of the HAs voting on this hold. You can just do the minimum of what is needed to get the hold published and then see what the end result of ratings and reviews and interest post-publication. Maybe the world will love it and that will sure will show me, or maybe it'll just get ignored.
07-04-2024 at 12:10 AM
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azb
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (+1)  
Okay, now that makes a lot of sense - because it's inherently subjective, you can't always back up your opinions with concrete things I need to improve, even though that is usually how someone learns best how to improve, and not just me specifically.

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07-04-2024 at 03:13 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (0)  
Click here to view the secret text


Something like this should fix the greckle gate characters so that they don't take your money as soon as you enter the screen if you previously bumped them without enough greckles.

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07-14-2024 at 06:49 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (0)  
Awesome! Thank you so much!

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07-14-2024 at 07:11 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (+2)  
mauvebutterfly wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


Something like this should fix the greckle gate characters so that they don't take your money as soon as you enter the screen if you previously bumped them without enough greckles.

Instead of Else, you should use "If End", followed by "Wait 0", then "Go to loop". As it's currently written, if you touch the character without the required money, it'll get stuck in an infinite loop and DROD script will kill the script to prevent a freeze. You need Wait 0 to stop Wait for player to touch me always succeeding from the same touch.
07-14-2024 at 07:55 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (0)  
Okay, that makes sense why it doesn't work as intended right now. Thank you!

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07-14-2024 at 07:57 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: Twenty Five Levels of Tendry (+1)  
kieranmillar wrote:
Instead of Else, you should use "If End", followed by "Wait 0", then "Go to loop". As it's currently written, if you touch the character without the required money, it'll get stuck in an infinite loop and DROD script will kill the script to prevent a freeze. You need Wait 0 to stop Wait for player to touch me always succeeding from the same touch.

Thanks for that. Wait 0 strikes again. You'd think I'd be used to that by now.

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07-14-2024 at 08:47 PM
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