Announcement: Why not try our official idea generator for inspiration when making puzzles?


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Elementary Dungeon (Re-try at a beginner friendly hold)
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged

File: Elementary Dungeon Level 3 Fixed Version 3.hold (23.3 KB)
Downloaded 28 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Elementary Dungeon (+2)  
Hi everyone,

I remember Bongthro Begins wasn't very succesful as a beginner friendly hold and felt more like KDD or war style holds, so here is something I believe that should be a more reasonable beginner friendly hold that is in the style of actual GatEB and not KDD.

So far, I have only completed the first 2 levels, and I want it to be a 25 level dungeon like KDD or JtRH, but using elements from all DRODs, including GatEB and TSS.

The plan for each level is:

Level 1: Introduce roaches, orbs, yellow doors, force arrows, disabled force arrows, pressure plates, green and blue doors, checkpoints, and tunnels.

Level 2: Introduce roach queens, crumbly wall usage in combat, Halph, arrow rotator tokens, and Gentryii

Level 3: Introduce evil eyes, Slayers, hot tiles, disarm tokens, and the stick weapon

Level 4: Introduce sister gates, trapdoors and red doors, briar, mimics, and engineers

Level 5: Introduce wraithwings, wubbas, fegundoes and power token usage beside fegundo control (like hitting orbs disarmed), and thin ice

Level 6: Introduce rock golems, mirrors, and spears. Also uses the theme of repeating the same puzzle but with an added twist from KDD level 6.

Level 7: Introduce serpents, invisibility potions, adders, conquer tokens, and puffs and fluff (no vents yet though).

Level 8: Introduce tar (no mothers yet, just stationary tar cutting), orthosquares, movable platforms over pits, and seeding beacons.

Level 9: Introduce stealth without using the invisiblity potion, like Gunthro in a guard disguise, as well as floor spikes.

Level 10: Introduce shallow water, black doors including their sister gate, spiders, water skippers and nests, bridges, and pickaxes.

Level 11: Introduce the vision token, stuff under tar puzzles, bombs and fuses, and powder kegs.

Level 12: Introduce tar mothers, citizens and the persistent citizen token, and temporal split tokens. Also emphasize more difficult puzzles from this level onward.

Level 13: Introduce maze layouts, goblins, clone potions, and the dagger.

Level 14: Introduce mud, scripted sword sentries like TCB Torture Chambers, squad horns/clone horns, and Temporal Aumtlich.

Level 15: Introduce decoys, oremites, and Temporal Resonator Crystals. Also emphasize a lot of monster-free puzzles in this one level like KDD level 15.

Level 16: Introduce mud mothers, rattlesnakes, gel, and the caber.

Level 17: Introduce seep, speed potions, and the Rodents of Unusual Size/Lemming monsters. Also emphasize efficiency and horde survival like KDD level 17 as well as TCB level 17/Pirate Hideout.

Level 18: Introduce playing as step-to-kill player roles, like goblins or Slayers, as well as fire traps. There will be even more difficult puzzles from this level onward, just like how it progress normally in all the official holds.

Level 19: Introduce brains, normal/purple robed aumtlich, and constructs. Also emphasize monster manipulation heavily, like KDD level 19.

Level 20: Introduce gel mothers, stalwarts and soldiers, and Temporal Obstacles from the final required level of TSS.

Level 21: Introduce Rock Giants and fluff vents. This level emphasizes brained hordes and bomb mazes, just like KDD and JtRH 21.

Level 22: Introduce tarstuff switch tokens, as well as soldier horns and flowers from TSS Flower Bed. Also emphasize cooperation with monsters in this level.

Level 23: Introduce builders from TCB Upper Lowest, as well as Darts from TSS. Note the puzzles will be the most difficult yet in the last few levels.

Level 24: Introduce the builder boss from TCB Lowest Proper, except it won't be Halph this time. Also introduce the Raygun. The emphasis in this level will be extremely difficult combat rooms, whereas Level 23 would be more lynchpin/normal puzzles.

Level 25: Introduce the KDD 'Neather, guards, and broken and cracked orbs. This level can be thought of as a "final boss battle" that involves both lynchpin puzzles as well as straight up combat.

08/18/2023 Update:

Fixed entrance room to level 3 to make it more beginner friendly, and the hot tile intro room as well for the same reason.

Added force arrows in the Slayer intro room to prevent the player from leaving and going back to clear the room without the Slayer.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!

[Last edited by azb at 08-18-2023 12:22 PM : 08/18/2023 Update, fixing many level 3 rooms.]
06-15-2023 at 06:07 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 4591
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (+5)  
Making a good beginner hold is a worthy ambition and I don't want to discourage you.

It's also hard. You have to really be able to think like a beginner -- not just in terms of facts known, but also in terms of thought processes. The beginner has no experience of fighting DROD roaches, so just because you've taught them how roaches move, they don't suddenly acquire understanding of strategy and tactics -- that has to be built up gradually by starting with really simple examples.

More detailed feedback on the two sample levels, room by room:

Click here to view the secret text


Also, a general point. Throughout both levels, checkpoints are scattered randomly, and many of them are in places the player has no reason to go. Think about where the player will travel and make sure a checkpoint is available just before major decisions such as striking an orb.



____________________________
50th Skywatcher

[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-15-2023 09:18 PM]
06-15-2023 at 08:58 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (+2)  
Hello Nuntar,

Thank you for reviewing the hold and being patient, despite the frustration that it looked like another Bongthro Begins while you were testing it. I promise you I wanted it to be beginner friendly, I just thought cause for example in the secret room I taught tunnels and the battle key earlier, they would know how to figure it out by manipulating the roaches, but maybe not.

I revisited both levels to the best accuracy. I made all of level 1 simpler/much more beginner esque, and revisited some rooms in level 2.

The ones I did not revisit:

1S: Although it is true there are a lot of roaches, the player knows how a multi use plate works and so can stop the roaches from the very bottommost south coming.

2S1W: I did indeed test it; the strategy is to lie on the very end of each passage where the queens are, so the roaches line up nicely and you can use the battle key or CTRL + Q-W. This should not be too unreasonable to expect beginners to know, as even the official tutorial mini-hold that comes with TSS demo tells you this.

1S3W: The sheer amount of roaches in this room is intentional, as there would be no incentive to use the broken walls for shelter otherwise. I originally had the same deal with the first Halph room, like force the player to close the door with him on it, but I toned down that room to focus on Halph. However, toning down this room would most likely get rid of the strategy involved.

2S3W: Although it is true I did not mention explicitly how to move 90 degrees on an arrow, I assumed it would be logical to most people, even without any DROD experience whatsoever, that 90 degrees/perpindicular to something is not directly against it, which was the criteria taught in the first level.

2S4W: The reason I kept it here rather than the first level is that it uses queens, and at that the lynchpin of having to beat a specific queen within a tight turn limit, whereas in the first level you have unlimited time to solve the rooms.

2S4W I did revisit, but do notice in the discussion with Halph when you first meet him, you are told explicitly that you can tap him to make him follow you.

3S3W I did revisit by making only a small amount of roaches behind crumbly walls, but I am confused... because I only introduced roaches and queens for things that you can use to clear the room, and not anything like conquer tokens or brains/skipper nests yet, I do not think there would be any point to a single room with only a Gentryii in it, as it would be cleared when you entered it.

Also, I do give the tooltip about how the Gentryii is chained to the wall, and that is the main point of the room already. I assumed that it would be intuitive/common sense that you could stab across a chain, as the player knows that you can stab diagonally across an obstacle like an orb or tunnel already.

However, in the end I revisited the room so that it wouldn't be chaotic with too many roaches, but it would focus on the Gentryii only.

On the topic of checkpoints, it is intentional that they are scattered across the room as the rooms they are scattered in are very open ended, in the ones that are not like the orb puzzle or on-off plate intro the checkpoints are more neatly organized.

Lastly, on top of fixing the first 2 levels, I added a third level, introducing what was planned in the post above.

The Gentryii introduction in the second level is not random, but rather reflects progress from its reference hold, the official TSS hold. It is obviously intentional that that room should be a simple usage of it, but more complicated puzzles will come in later levels.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
06-15-2023 at 11:09 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
I also decided, because I drafted level 4 just now, to move the engineers to a later level like 23 or 24, as I can't seem to think of any good puzzles involving them with the small amount of elements intrdouced up to that point in the hold.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
06-16-2023 at 12:08 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 4591
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (+2)  
Some quick responses. I haven't played all of the new Level 3 yet.

azb wrote: I promise you I wanted it to be beginner friendly

I believe you :) I just know that this is a hard target to hit, so I wanted to give you some gentle nudges.

I just thought cause for example in the secret room I taught tunnels and the battle key earlier, they would know how to figure it out by manipulating the roaches, but maybe not.

I guessed that in the Level 1 secret (old version), the idea was to get into a safe position next to one of the tunnels so you could just battle key away. Couldn't work out how to set up the safe position, though -- there were always a few leftover roaches coming at me from the wrong side.

[Level 2] 1S: Although it is true there are a lot of roaches, the player knows how a multi use plate works and so can stop the roaches from the very bottommost south coming.

Indeed, I did that... there are still 15 roaches per cycle from the north queens. And you have to fight through those, hit the orb, and get to safety before the next spawn hits you from behind. This is really not easy.

2S1W: I did indeed test it; the strategy is to lie on the very end of each passage where the queens are, so the roaches line up nicely and you can use the battle key or CTRL + Q-W. This should not be too unreasonable to expect beginners to know, as even the official tutorial mini-hold that comes with TSS demo tells you this.

The problem comes when you reach the SE bend. If you killed the four queens in the centre, then by the time you get to the SE, the roach build-up is too severe to get right into the corner. Now, I played through the room again and it's not impossible as I first thought to get into the corner, and it does make the rest of the room much easier if you have killed the queens in the centre on your way down, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a very demanding room no matter how you approach it.

1S3W: The sheer amount of roaches in this room is intentional, as there would be no incentive to use the broken walls for shelter otherwise.

I made a test version removing the outer two rings of roaches, and it works fine -- you get overwhelmed unless you carve out a safe spot in the crumbly walls.

2S3W: Although it is true I did not mention explicitly how to move 90 degrees on an arrow, I assumed it would be logical to most people, even without any DROD experience whatsoever, that 90 degrees/perpendicular to something is not directly against it, which was the criteria taught in the first level.

This kind of thing is why it's really important to try out your hold with actual beginners and get feedback from them. Now, I haven't shown your hold to any beginners either so I am not speaking with authority here -- but I do think that "sliding" orthogonally on force arrows is a little counterintuitive, especially since arrows exist in other games but can have different properties (e.g. sometimes they require movement in exactly the direction they point; sometimes they just dictate which direction you can step onto them, but you can step off in any direction, or vice versa).

3S3W I did revisit by making only a small amount of roaches behind crumbly walls, but I am confused... because I only introduced roaches and queens for things that you can use to clear the room, and not anything like conquer tokens or brains/skipper nests yet, I do not think there would be any point to a single room with only a Gentryii in it, as it would be cleared when you entered it.

You can make it a room that you just have to pass through to get to other rooms.

I assumed that it would be intuitive/common sense that you could stab across a chain, as the player knows that you can stab diagonally across an obstacle like an orb or tunnel already.

Do they? That hasn't been the specific lesson of any previous room.

On the topic of checkpoints, it is intentional that they are scattered across the room as the rooms they are scattered in are very open ended, in the ones that are not like the orb puzzle or on-off plate intro the checkpoints are more neatly organized.

The rooms are not quite that open-ended... e.g. in Level 1, 1S, the roach will always go towards the player, so the player never has a reason to go to the north end of the room. Same in 4S2W.

You don't have to put checkpoints on all sides of an orb :P One nearby the orb is enough.

____________________________
50th Skywatcher
06-16-2023 at 12:42 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (+1)  
Thank you for specifying what exactly your problems were with those particular things. I will fix them pronto on the next update.

Obviously, to make testing convenient to you and other players, I will not add any levels after 3 until it has been tested thoroughly and ensured beginner friendly,

But I did brainstorm witty names for level 4 onward:

4: Grand Gardens

5: The Flaming Pits

6: Ice Palace

7: Den of Ssssslitherin

8: Tarred and Feathered

9: Metal Orb Solid

10: Watery Grave

11: Exploding into Chaos

12: Mother of a Spoostleserpent

13: Frozen Labyrinth

14: Lair of the Greenskins

15: Strangely Empty?

16: Muddy Mess

17: Sea of Sludge

18: Monstrous Mayhem

19: Director's Edition

20: Brainiac's Lab

21: One Against One Thousand

22: Dancing with the Monsters

23: Men at Work

24: Ever Changing World

25: Ultimate Showdown



____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
06-16-2023 at 10:43 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Okay,

In general, I changed the level titles somewhat but kept the same idea, so level 13's title is the same idea, but named "Icy Labyrinth" rather than "Frozen Labyrinth" for example.

Level 14, I decided because level 13 would use goblins already, to be renamed "The Blue Man Group" after the sentries looking like mimics and the Temporal Aumtlich in that level.

Note however, I didn't use the mimics exactly like how it works in the original TCB for the sprite, because I knew it would confuse and frustrate players, so I made the sprite black colored instead.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
06-22-2023 at 02:24 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Hello,

Does anyone have any comments on level 3 or the fixes on the first 2 levels before I add any more?

I drafted all the way up to level 18 already, but will obviously fix and polish each level as the testers request.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
06-28-2023 at 12:47 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
I also decided level 20 should introduce brains, and level 21 should introduce gel mothers and stalwarts/soldiers, and level 25 should introduce TSS living obstacles while drafting them.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
06-28-2023 at 05:15 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Does anyone have any comments for level 3 yet? Just like the first 2 levels, I want it fully tested and commented on, secret rooms and all, before I show the next levels even though I have them planned out.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
07-23-2023 at 01:00 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
disoriented
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2386
Registered: 08-07-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Hi azb,

Before you ask the drod community to test something, you really need to run through it yourself multiple times and record a full set of demos. The standards in this community are pretty high for what you submit, so you should be confident it's complete.

Right now it's pretty clear that your hold needs a lot more testing before it's ready to be looked at. For example, the L1 secret is not possible to solve. You need to go through everything yourself and polish it before submitting it here.

____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.
07-25-2023 at 06:51 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
That is really weird, cause I was able to solve it myself, and in fact it's actually a simpler version of a room deemed too hard for beginners but was still solvable as well.

I do in fact test the levels in game, and look for backtracking issues and impossible rooms myself; this comment you sent feels more like general frustration rather than actually pointing out any issues (besides the secret room you mentioned obviously).

The problem room in question is actually very easy; you just camp behind an orb and Q + W your way through, and then clear out the rest. What exactly is the problem you are having with it?

I know as well that it's possible to exit after closing the door, cause there's a green door next to it.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
07-25-2023 at 07:43 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
disoriented
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2386
Registered: 08-07-2007
IP: Logged

File: L1secret.png (677 KB)
Downloaded 268 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
It sounds like the version of the hold you posted isn't the one you're looking at.

Here's a pic of the room in the version I downloaded from your post:
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.
07-25-2023 at 07:52 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
That is incredibly bizarre, cause I thought I posted a version with the green door added; I will post it right now, however. Thank you for helping find errrors I thought were fixed earlier; it is greatly appreciated! :)

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
07-25-2023 at 11:43 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Does anyone have any comments on level 3? I really want to show you guys the rest of the levels cause I have drafts complete for them already, but know I can't give you guys all the levels at once cause that would be overwhelming/too much.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
08-17-2023 at 08:51 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
disoriented
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2386
Registered: 08-07-2007
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Couldn't get past the entrance eyeball room.

EDIT: I see you made this easier in the latest revision. I'll give it a try.

EDIT2:
L3 1N2W is really a slog. You might try replaying these and seeing if there really need to be this many monsters. I'd take out at least half the roach queens.

L3 1N1W The Slayer appears when you enter from the W but not the E.


____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.

[Last edited by disoriented at 08-18-2023 01:11 AM]
08-18-2023 at 12:20 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
disoriented
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 2386
Registered: 08-07-2007
IP: Logged

File: exiting.demo (22.5 KB)
Downloaded 19 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
I don't think you meant for it to be this hard to exit L2 1S3W. Playtesting the hold yourself would catch issues like this.

Demo attached.

____________________________
34th Skywatcher

Best to PM me, since I might miss your message on CaravelNet chat.
08-18-2023 at 12:30 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Two of the issues you pointed out are in fact intentional, the one about the Halph puzzle in level 2, and the Slayer not appearing when you come from the east (because he approaches you from the south when you come from that direction instead), but maybe to prevent the player from leaving and coming back to clear the room without the Slayer I can add force arrows?

The hot tile room being tedious however, I can fix cause I definitely want it to be more beginner friendly. Probably tone down the entrance room further still as well?

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
08-18-2023 at 12:17 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Just to elaborate so that we're understanding each other about the level 2 thing:

When I said the puzzle was intentional, I meant that I intended for you to figure out how to exit is a puzzle on its own, seperate from the main combat. This reflects how rooms were when you were first introduced to Halph in the orignial JtRH if I remember correctly, where there were multiple lynchpins/tricks in one room.

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
08-18-2023 at 02:02 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
Does anyone have any extra/more detailed feedback on levels 1 thru 3, 3 in particular I want more feedback on, before I show you guys level 4?

Like does anyone have any more tedious rooms they think need more reworking, or is there anything too easy or too hard in general, or anything like that?

Again, my plan for the levels is:

Level 4 introduces briars, trapdoors, red doors, mimics, and sister gates.

Level 5 introduces wraithwings, wubbas, and power tokens and fegundoes.

Level 6 introduces mirrors and rock golems.

Level 7 introduces serpents, conquer tokens, invisibility potions, adders and fluff and puffs.

Level 8 introduces tar in general, but no mothers yet, orthosquares, platforms over pits, and seeding beacons.

Level 9 is basically using old elements in new ways just like levels 9 in KDD and JtRH, but it does introduce floor spikes and playing as a disguised sworded role.

Level 10 introduces spiders, shallow water and normal water, water skippers, water skipper movement vs roach movement, skipper nests, bridges, pickaxes, and mirror and rock golem made stepping stones.

Level 11 introduces bombs and fuses, powder kegs, vision tokens, and black doors and their sister version.

Level 12 is mostly a re-use of earlier elements like KDD level 12, but introduces tar mothers, citizens and relay stations, and temporal split tokens.

Level 13 is mostly an empty maze like KDD level 13, but introduces goblins, clone potions, daggers, and spears.

Level 14 introduces mud, squad/clone horns, spinning sentries like TCB level 14 (Torture Chambers), and Temporal Aumtlich.

Level 15 introduces thin ice, decoy potions, oremites, and Temporal Resonators.

Level 16 introduces mud mothers, rattlesnakes, gel, and mini cabers.

Level 17 introduces seep, speed potions, how hot tiles interact with tarstuff, and RoUS/Lemmings from TSS.

Level 18 is mostly a re-use of older elements like KDD and JtRH levels 18, but helps introduce new mechanics to old elements not shown previously, like how decoys attract monsters, how spikes deal with serpents differently than normal swords, how Gentryii's chains can block itself and cannot be crossed diagonally, and how puffs form ice over water. You are also introduced to two new things: step-to-kill roles, and flame traps.

Level 19 is mostly a manipulation maze level like KDD level 19, but introduces the normal purple aumtlich and Constructs.

Level 20 introduces brains and their interactions with all the previous monsters introduced.

Level 21 introduces gel mothers, soldiers, and stalwarts, as well as shows shallow water's and brains' interactions with more monsters than shown earlier.

Level 22 introduces soldier horns, rock giants, tarstuff switch tokens, and flowers.

Level 23 introduces build markers for citizens, who act as builders, engineers, darts, and dart cannons.

Level 24 introduces the architect commander from TCB Level 24 (Lowest Proper), except it's a generic citizen rather than you-know-who for story purposes. Note that no 'Neather is introduced, because the commander is basically the same thing as the 'Neather function wise.

Level 25 introduces guards, rayguns, and broken and cracked orbs.

Do you guys think that I should implement the obstacles from the final TSS level in Level 25 as well, because they're the final big element in TSS and I want the order of the elements introduced to mimic the way it was in the main holds?

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
08-31-2023 at 02:57 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
azb
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 460
Registered: 03-08-2014
IP: Logged
icon Re: Elementary Dungeon (0)  
I decided in level 25, to add two fights against Slayers for the last two rooms after you clear the main level, one with bombs and one with just your sword and pinning him against some walls with nothing else to your advantage.

I figured showing how to kill the Slayer by sword in those ways would make a great final boss fight and end to a beginner friendly hold; would you guys agree?

____________________________
Please feel free to test the ultimate arena: King Azb's Arena today!
12-31-2023 at 11:57 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Elementary Dungeon (Re-try at a beginner friendly hold)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.