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Illusionist
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icon Groo vs Beethro (+1)  
Who is the biggest mendicant?

Was Beethro inspired by Groo who was inspired by Conan?
Unbeatable warrior who can't read?

I didn't start a poll, because it's obvious who would win, but I was re-reading Groo, and I was thinking about that particular trope

[Last edited by Illusionist at 06-21-2021 05:50 PM]
06-21-2021 at 05:47 PM
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ErikH2000
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Illusionist wrote:
Was Beethro inspired by Groo who was inspired by Conan?
Unbeatable warrior who can't read?
Pretty indirectly inspired, but I really liked Groo. I'm sure he was kicking around in my head. As was Conan - I saw all those movies, and read several of the Robert E. Howard books.

I think I saw Groo first in Mad Magazine, but I'm not certain. The intricate art style of Sergio Aragones was fascinating to me, and in my adolescence, I was really impressed with excessive detail in art. If somebody filled in every scrap of space available to them with illustration, that was the height of artistic credibility to me. A version of the "spirit of generosity".

I never owned a Groo comic book. But I read a few issues/books cover-to-cover standing in stores. When I was interested in comic books, I didn't often have money to spend on them.

Beethro was more directly inspired by my own life as a freelance software consultant in the '90s. The nature of consulting is that you feel like an outsider most of the time, with all of your temporary and transactional work relationships. But if you like that lifestyle at all, you'll have an individualistic streak like like the Knight of Lamancha's to bolster your self-esteem.

The simple story of Beethro and King Dugan mirrored my own hustling for gigs writing database software for small businesses. Picture a sweaty 23-year-old in a blazer and tie walking alongside a boulevard to a bus stop, cars whizzing by, lugging his pleather briefbag full of floppy disks, cables, and business cards. And picture that guy Rubik's-Cubing his brain to see his ordinary life struggle as something where he was heroic. That's where Beethro came from.

And then later when Beethro had to grow up a little, and see the world as more than a series of gigs to prove himself or earn money. Well... that was me too.

-Erik

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06-21-2021 at 07:11 PM
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icon Re: Groo vs Beethro (+2)  
Fittingly, Beethro's job is debugging dungeons.

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06-22-2021 at 03:13 AM
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Illusionist
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Thank you Mr. Hermansen for delivering excellent answer on this excellent forum.

In regards to the Groo vs Beethro, it's un-canny how both are un-beatable and un-educated and have un-appealing faces. Eventually, Groo
Click here to view the secret text
, while Beethro learns that not every problem can be smited away. I have to thank Groo for expanding my english vocabulary with words like "mendicant" that I rarely see being used anywhere

I'm thinking if there are other barbarians in fiction who fit this trope of being comedic & fearsome. I can only think of Akira Toriyama's works, but the strongmen in his mangas are modeled more by Superman and are handsome, and aren't as funny, even if they act like ignoramuses

[Last edited by Illusionist at 06-22-2021 03:41 PM]
06-22-2021 at 03:36 PM
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Genuinely thought this was about Gru from Despicable Me and the OP just made a typo. Fortunately, DROD predates Despicable Me, so we don't have any analogue to the Minions.

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06-22-2021 at 09:29 PM
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Just imagine if Beethro took all his nephews to Rooted Hold with him.
06-23-2021 at 03:53 AM
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ErikH2000
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Camwoodstock wrote:
Genuinely thought this was about Gru from Despicable Me and the OP just made a typo.
Also could be confused with the Zorkian monsters that forced you to find a lamp before venturing into darkness.

-Erik

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06-27-2021 at 07:09 PM
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Rabscuttle wrote:
Just imagine if Beethro took all his nephews to Rooted Hold with him.

Maybe some smitemaster selection?:D
Or just some fanmade hold?
07-18-2021 at 02:46 PM
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Jordthro
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Illusionist wrote:
Was Beethro inspired by Groo who was inspired by Conan?
Unbeatable warrior who can't read?
Pretty indirectly inspired, but I really liked Groo. I'm sure he was kicking around in my head. As was Conan - I saw all those movies, and read several of the Robert E. Howard books.

I think I saw Groo first in Mad Magazine, but I'm not certain. The intricate art style of Sergio Aragones was fascinating to me, and in my adolescence, I was really impressed with excessive detail in art. If somebody filled in every scrap of space available to them with illustration, that was the height of artistic credibility to me. A version of the "spirit of generosity".

I never owned a Groo comic book. But I read a few issues/books cover-to-cover standing in stores. When I was interested in comic books, I didn't often have money to spend on them.

Beethro was more directly inspired by my own life as a freelance software consultant in the '90s. The nature of consulting is that you feel like an outsider most of the time, with all of your temporary and transactional work relationships. But if you like that lifestyle at all, you'll have an individualistic streak like like the Knight of Lamancha's to bolster your self-esteem.

The simple story of Beethro and King Dugan mirrored my own hustling for gigs writing database software for small businesses. Picture a sweaty 23-year-old in a blazer and tie walking alongside a boulevard to a bus stop, cars whizzing by, lugging his pleather briefbag full of floppy disks, cables, and business cards. And picture that guy Rubik's-Cubing his brain to see his ordinary life struggle as something where he was heroic. That's where Beethro came from.

And then later when Beethro had to grow up a little, and see the world as more than a series of gigs to prove himself or earn money. Well... that was me too.

-Erik

I imagine you and I are a lot alike, Erik. We had practically the same childhood--born out of Mad Magazines, Conan the Barbarian and Robert E. Howard novels. I really appreciate game developers because they allow us players to enter their stories and find themselves in the protagonist as well. I can't help but feel like Beethro when I play DROD. He's rough on the outside (and is very capable of slaying monster horde after monster horde), yet is also an affectionate uncle who loves his nieces and nephews. Beethro is a truly great character with a heart of gold.

Can't wait to play your next game. I'm not looking forward to killing any Gods (except maybe for the bad ones like Loki), but I am really looking forward to knocking about in a 3D implementation of a few DROD mechanics that I think have been stirring around in your mind for some time (if the concept art from beating the games is any indication). I hope you never stop making games. They bring me a great deal of joy.

Erik, you should check out Sergio Aragones sketch out Groo (and other Mad magazine comics) in some YouTube videos. I'm amazed at how fast he can draw. He's really, really talented.

Also, there's a funny scene at the end of "Conan the Barbarian" where all of the cultists are throwing their torches into the water and Conan has the unpleasant task of beheading Thulsa Doom before him. If you watch really closely, you'll be able to make out one of the cultist actors who apparently forgot what he was supposed to be doing and you can see him run to drop his torch in the water when everyone else is walking really somber as befits the occasion.

I'm not really a fan of the rampant nudity in Thulsa Doom's chamber prior to that scene (and all of the other nude scenes in the movie), but other than that it was a pretty solid flick in my opinion. Great fun! Also, the Howard novels are a real blast--it's a shame he later committed suicide.

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[Last edited by Jordthro at 08-07-2021 11:50 PM]
08-07-2021 at 11:48 PM
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ErikH2000
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Jordthro wrote:
(if the concept art from beating the games is any indication).
Yes, definitely. There were a handful of things that DROD either wasn't right for, or we didn't have enough "juice" to get in. And they're going into The Godkiller, which is very satisfying for me.

BTW, the demo is ready now, if you want to try it out. Link is in my sig.
I hope you never stop making games. They bring me a great deal of joy.
Thank you!
it was a pretty solid flick in my opinion. Great fun!
Yeah, I am now debating rewatching Conan. It's one of those movies that might not live up now to my memories of how good it was. You started me watching little clips of it on Youtube today.

-Erik

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08-08-2021 at 03:56 AM
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Yeah, I am now debating rewatching Conan. It's one of those movies that might not live up now to my memories of how good it was. You started me watching little clips of it on Youtube today.

-Erik

I watched that movie so many times I can still to this day quote this verbatim:

"Between the times when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the suns of Areas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to bear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a traveled brow. It is I (Subotai the Mongol), his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!" (insert Basil Poledouris music--yes, I owned the OST...)

These days I disagree with Conan's assessment on "what is best in life", but I can't deny that his overall life philosophy struck a real nerve in teenage me.

Yeah, give it a watch--if for anything than to watch that solitary cultist scramble to douse his torch while everyone else does so somberly. It's like a moving Sergio Aragones comic. So funny!

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08-08-2021 at 02:24 PM
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Beethro is a truly great character with a heart of gold.

Can't wait to play your next game. I'm not looking forward to killing any Gods (except maybe for the bad ones like Loki), but I am really looking forward to knocking about in a 3D implementation of a few DROD mechanics that I think have been stirring around in your mind for some time.
I really enjoy Beethro as a character too. I played through the Godkiller demo and liked so many things about it, which I'll likely share in that other thread about the demo.

But speaking about characterization in Godkiller, I had a smile on my face for much of that dialog. I'm interested in how much Emm gets fleshed out as a relatable character, like Beethro, over time. In the game's setting, this might be more challenging to do, but Erik pulled it off well in the Eighth, and I think it can work here too.

But I can say, that after dealing with "God" in the demo (what fun monologues!), I'm already looking forward to offing him, and it feels like that would be a good thing for some reason. Hmm... looks like it's time for some introspection. :)

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[Last edited by mrimer at 08-09-2021 05:26 PM]
08-09-2021 at 05:24 PM
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ErikH2000
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mrimer wrote:
I'm interested in how much Emm gets fleshed out as a relatable character, like Beethro, over time. In the game's setting, this might be more challenging to do, but Erik pulled it off well in the Eighth, and I think it can work here too.
Yeah, Emm's tricky. She comes in blank, almost an amnesiac, and it's a slow build. There is no backstory to draw from, because her character doesn't have access to it.

Really happy you're enjoying the game so far, Mike.

-Erik

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08-10-2021 at 02:20 AM
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Yeah, I'm digging the game, too. Really like the new mechanics and I'm also looking forward to offing this "God". He's like a twisted and warped version of the God of the Bible. Like a Bizarro version.

Emm is a great character and she's really growing on me. Due to the circumstances she initially finds herself in, it's easy to draw comparisons to Schell, but it's clear early on that she's unique and stands alone in this world autonomous and without comparison. I look forward to getting to know more about her throughout the game.

Looks like another really solid game, Erik! Thanks for making it.

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[Last edited by Jordthro at 08-14-2021 03:35 PM]
08-14-2021 at 03:32 PM
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