ErikH2000
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Slay the Spire - I love it.

It's not a puzzle game. It's a deck-building, run-based game. I said "run-based" instead of "rogue-like" in solidarity with Zenorogue https://zenorogue.medium.com/what-to-say-instead-of-roguelike-96a68c595912).

And crucially, Slay the Spire does not ask for you to buy more cards to improve the game. The cards and power-ups are unchanging, which is why it can be so well-balanced and fun. I very much do not want that nagging feeling that I could be enjoying the game more by buying another booster pack.

But I've played hundreds of hours of StS, winning with all four characters, and basically exhausted its novelty.

Anybody know another game like it that I can try? Bonus points if it's on XBox. But I also have a Mac/Windows.

-Erik

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Xindaris
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Maybe you'd like Monster Slayers? It came out earlier, so arguably it's the "original". When I first heard of slay the spire, and saw what its premise is, my very first reaction was "Oh, so it's like Monster Slayers", and that made me not want it all. Because, even though I almost always like Nerdook's games, I eventually just couldn't stand to play that one. But maybe the things I dislike about it are the same as things you like about slay the spire?

Also, One Step From Eden looks kinda like that sort of game mixed with megaman battle network's battle system, as far as I can tell.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-14-2021 04:15 PM]

RoboBob3000
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Without having played any of the games in question, I've heard the game Monster Train often mentioned positively in comparison to Slay the Spire.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1102190/Monster_Train/

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[Last edited by RoboBob3000 at 05-14-2021 07:27 PM]

ErikH2000
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All three of those look intriguing to me. Monster Train and Monster Slayers are on XBox, which is better couch-gaming for me. I just have a hard time sitting in front of a PC and playing a game.

It shouldn't influence me so much, but I *really* like the "train" aspect of Monster Train. It looks like Snowpiercer or the Dethklok train. So I'll probably give that one a try.

-Erik

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kieranmillar
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Slay the Spire is great. I love it.

If you like board games, may I recommend Dominion? It was a big inspiration for Slay the Spire and was the original "deck builder" game, where you build your deck as part of the main game, as opposed to collectible card games like Magic the Gathering where all players have to buy their own cards and assemble decks in advance.

Dominion is playable in web browsers, so you can play it on a tablet, although the interface is mainly built for non-mobile. It is free to play the base game without any expansions. Although it's mainly for playing with friends, it has some bots you can play against on your own, but they only execute basic strategies.

https://dominion.games/

It assumes you're already familiar with the game, so if you want to know what you're doing, you have to go for the classic board-game experience and read the rulebook: https://www.riograndegames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Dominion-2nd-Edition-Rules.pdf

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[Last edited by kieranmillar at 05-15-2021 03:41 PM]

ThemsAllTook
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I haven't played Slay the Spire, so I don't know firsthand just how similar it is, but I heard a few comparisons to it when I was playing Dicey Dungeons. Might be worth a look.

ErikH2000
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ThemsAllTook wrote:
I haven't played Slay the Spire, so I don't know firsthand just how similar it is, but I heard a few comparisons to it when I was playing Dicey Dungeons. Might be worth a look.

It looks appealing, thanks!

I did try Monster Train yesterday. It's on XBox GamePass which was nice.

I thought it was fun and definitely high production value. But it was more difficult for me to make choices than in Slay the Spire. It might be one of the reasons that StS is appealing - it limits the information you're responding to enough that you can be semi-logical about making choices. Occasionally, it even feels like a puzzle game at times in the hands dealt where one set of card plays is clearly better than any other.

Whereas Monster Train is kind of like playing 3 hands at once. (Each of 3 floors in the train is an area where cards can be played that typically affect just that floor.) And each creature / card has more stats and effects to consider. So it feels less logical and more intuitive. I'm sure that if I keep playing the game, it will end up being less "guessy" for me.

Also, I've grown to love the cheesy art in StS, which kind of looks like a very talented 5th-grader made it. Dicey Dungeons seems to have that cheesy feel to it. It's interesting how sometimes the "best" art is not the best art.

-Erik

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Daneel
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Dreamquest ( https://store.steampowered.com/app/557410/Dream_Quest/ ) is great.

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[Last edited by Daneel at 05-16-2021 07:36 PM]

ErikH2000
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Daneel wrote:
Dreamquest ( https://store.steampowered.com/app/557410/Dream_Quest/ ) is great.

Wow, two killer reviews...

“It has been ages since I couldn't put down a game. It is a one fee game - no in app purchases. Try this game - you will not be disappointed”
Richard Garfield

“Hearthstone team is all playing dream quest right now”
Dean Ayala

-Erik

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The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
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xpym
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ErikH2000 wrote:
But it was more difficult for me to make choices than in Slay the Spire. It might be one of the reasons that StS is appealing - it limits the information you're responding to enough that you can be semi-logical about making choices.

Yep, and there's another important aspect of this - StS' arithmetics are much simpler, with the vast majority of calculations being easy to do mentally, whereas in MT multipliers often stack into thousands, requiring imprecise estimations.

It's interesting how sometimes the "best" art is not the best art.

Maybe it's a similar phenomenon to uncanny valley - clearly stylized art is less likely to evoke uneasiness or weirdness than more "realistic" one.

Lucky Luc
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Ooh boy I love Slay the Spire. Bought it last spring knowing very little about it other than that it was a card game and been constantly playing it since then.

Of the other games mentioned here, I've played Dicey Dungeons and Monster Train, though I haven't tried the "new" DLC for the latter yet. Both are fine games, but they don't quite keep me coming back like the Spire does.

I think both of them have a somewhat similar issue, namely that the same build is good against most enemies. Dicey Dungeons has this cool inventory system, and yet, I rarely find myself switching between equipment depending on which enemy I face. Monster Train has a similar problem, where some bosses counter certain plays (Stealth boss especially), but in general, the same three questions are asked in each combat that can usually answered using the same set of cards, so it often feels a lot more clear what cards to pick when you've played a few runs. Spire on the other hand requires you to build a deck that can face a variety of challenges, with some cards being great in some fights and close to useless in others. It's a much more delicate balance that ultimately feels more interesting.

Additionally, I sort of dislike that enemies in Dicey Dungeons are so unpredictable. Yes, there's some manipulation you can do with status effects, but ultimately, it just depends so much on what dice they roll. Both StS and MT feel a lot more fair in that regard.

Apart from that, I've watched a video of Jorbs playing Roguebook, which seems to have very similar combat to StS, but a sort of different overworld mechanic. Also looks very charming. Still in Early Access though and I haven't played it myself, yet.

(As a side note, I never quite understood the complaints about Spire's art. Sure, it's somewhat simplistic, but to me, all the art assets look pretty professional and consistent with each other, which is also a super important thing I think is too often overlooked. I used to play a game called Enigma and during times when development was going strong, a lot of the "ugly" item graphics were replaced with super-realistic images, which looked great on their own, but just felt super out of place in the context of the game)

ErikH2000
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Lucky Luc wrote:
I never quite understood the complaints about Spire's art.

In the end, I have to say I like the art.

But if you've ever started trying to draw a figure that was anatomically correct and gave up halfway through and converted it into a fantasy monster that has no definition of "correct"... that's the kind of feel it has.

Which is harder to draw? A hellhound based on what a muscular dog in the real world looks like? Or a four-legged creature with some fur on it?

There is so much charm in the art, but it's not at the quality of art that appears on Magic the Gathering cards, for example.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

ErikH2000
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One other thing to add, because I always feel like the creative person I'm critiquing is in the room with me...

These quality issues usually come down to economics. If an artist has a week to spend on an asset instead of a day, it makes a huge difference. Hopefully, with a hit on their hands, Megacrit will be able to pump some more funds into the art on their next game.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

mrimer
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Loved Slay the Spire too. Reached the final boss, but don't expect I'll persist until I defeat it.

I second Dicey Dungeons.

Tried Enter the Gungeon for the first time (as two-player) and that was fun.

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ErikH2000
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mrimer wrote:
Loved Slay the Spire too. Reached the final boss, but don't expect I'll persist until I defeat it.

It's not my greatest life achievement, but I managed to beat that boss with all four characters.

It really is a classic game.

On Alex' recommendation, I played Dream Quest and it is scratching the itch. Well-balanced and understandable enough to form good strategies. There is that DROD:RPG/TUNAS choice to make of which enemy to attack first or when to pick up limited resources.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)