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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Hundred Levels of Horror (More reasonable remake of JtRH)
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azb
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
I don't know how you made a roach get stuck on 27,15; the bombs should blow up all of the roaches in that section, because the force arrows should point against the wall, with the "flow" of the bomb explosion.

I will make the entrance clearable on the first pass, since you said it is a problem regarding scores and that it doesn't record the effort you put in the first pass - only the fuse step on the second pass.

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[Last edited by azb at 08-21-2020 01:32 PM : Added "should"]
08-21-2020 at 01:26 PM
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KituU
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
Hi, restored to exit stairs in Level 51 to replay level 52 from the beginning (in latest version 22)
Now Halph is not appearing in level 52 2W
08-22-2020 at 10:25 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
Okay, I got it fixed by making a force arrow beyond the green door, and then having him not "End on room exit" until you go on the arrow. Right now due to the size of the file with all the voice lines, it is a little slow exporting, but I think I should have it in 2 minutes or so.

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08-23-2020 at 01:43 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
Okay, having it beyond the green door makes the room impossible because of the orbs behind the trapdoor, so instead I will move the force arrows to block the exit of the entrance hallway, and have Halph "End on room exit" after that point.

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08-23-2020 at 02:03 PM
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KituU
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
Hi, currently stuck at 85 level 1N1E

some notes
Click here to view the secret text

08-29-2020 at 08:47 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
For 85 1N1E:

Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text


Click here to view the secret text


Please request a demo if you still can't solve the room.

I fixed the other issues as well just now, except for level 58 1S1W, since I want to stick to the JtRH engine, although I could post a challenge on the challenges board if the hold gets published

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08-31-2020 at 04:47 PM
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KituU
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
Hi,
72 level 1E : decoy may still block Slayer entrance, place decoy at the entrance , sword south, slayer not appearing
09-01-2020 at 04:42 AM
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bbb
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (+2)  
(This post is referring to version 23.)

General advice for finalizing the hold:

Don't rush the testing of the hold. The longer you wait, more people might test the hold, and find more problems before release.

If you change a room, make sure to test it well, and play the level again in the game. Don't assume that it is just a small change, and can't break anything. This is doubly true when you change or fix scripts. As always, it is not a good sign if you can't be bothered to play your room again.

Don't change rooms (usually) to prevent harder challenging solutions. Be liberal about adding scripted challenges. Challenges don't have to be hard in order to be good. Just because I didn't recommend a challenge doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be added. I didn't systematically check every possible challenge and evaluate if it is good. I only noted the challenges I noticed and often felt natural, and I think these challenges I recommended are all reasonable.


Click here to view the secret text

09-01-2020 at 02:54 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (+2)  
Thank you for the fixes and advice bbb. I make sure to playtest my rooms after I complete them, but in some instances like in Level 25 1E, I would not be able to find the unintended solution myself, because I would be overwhelmed by the horde when testing.

I also published the earlier holds early because it looked like not many people were interested, but I suppose I can wait a longer time (say, 1 year) before publishing holds early.

I used the JtRH engine for the "old school" aesthetic, but I suppose it would be more logical/reasonable of me to use the TSS engine, because I can make the same exact puzzles in both engines, with added features in the TSS engine such as tar transparency and scripted challenges.

I fixed most of the back tracking and speech problems and when I tested the rooms, all of the unintended solutions (including the early scoring in levels 2 and 3 entrance) to the best of my ability; the only backtracking issues I did not fix are the tar and mud based ones, as I am not sure if there are any 2.0 era elements I can use to lock the player in until they kill extra babies.

I also chose not to fix some of them by design rather than because I didn't have the proper tools to do so, in particular:

* Level 3 1E: While you normally should let the player explore the level freely, allowing them to exit the room uncleared after hitting the orb wouldn't work here because the player could also camp at the entrances/exits of the room and smite most of the roaches, and make the rest of them not a problem either as they are blocked off by the wall.

* Level 12 Entrance second complaint I am confused about; could you please send a demo explaining the problem?

* Level 12 1S1E I intentionally made harder, as other people were saying it was too easy and they could mash Q + W in one spot.

* Level 13 Entrance: Halph has "End on room exit" before he moves; even if he might not visibly move due to the trapdoors, he should not be there when you return

* Level 25 1S1W: although it does not explicitly feature invisibility potions, involves manipulation of monsters and so fits the theme of the level in that sense.

* Level 32 secret room: even though level skips might not be featured in many modern holds, I added one here as a reference to the level skips in the original JtRH hold.

* Level 72 locks not preventing return: this is intentional, because it would be a major backtracking problem otherwise. I designed them so that they should only prevent going to the next room without the Slayer, in case you managed to kill him yourself or with a decoy.

Finally,

Level 84 1S I did fix, but exiting back up north after killing the monsters was the intended solution. However, I changed it to exiting south by adding two evil eyes at the bottom.

____________________________
If you enjoyed the other holds in
the Blank Dungeon series, please publicly test The Final Reckoning today!

[Last edited by azb at 09-01-2020 10:47 PM : Forgot Level 3 1E]
09-01-2020 at 08:55 PM
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bbb
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (+2)  
At least in the future, can you list the version numbers in the changelog?
quote:
but in some instances like in Level 25 1E, I would not be able to find the unintended solution myself, because I would be overwhelmed by the horde when testing.

You should ask yourself about every room what your assumptions are, and what would happen if the room was broken. In most cases, it just means the player can solve the room a hard way (which can either become a scripted challenge, noted in game, or ignored) or an easy way (which can be fixed if caught on time), but does not affect the rest of the game. In other cases, such as in this room, breaking the room allows skipping rooms, which you can identify even if you can't break it yourself, and even if you don't know if it is possible.

The obvious solution in this case is to add another blue door in the following room which solves the sequence breaking issue. That should be done even if you choose to add more roaches to the room to prevent this breakage. (I don't think you should. This is a challenging break.)

Since I found that it is possible, you can add a scripted challenge next to the second blue door about reaching it when it is still closed.
quote:
I used the JtRH engine for the "old school" aesthetic, but I suppose it would be more logical/reasonable of me to use the TSS engine, because I can make the same exact puzzles in both engines, with added features in the TSS engine such as tar transparency and scripted challenges.

Most people will anyway play on TSS, so they have tar transparency and unlimited undo. Scripted challenges are good. You can consider the hold as a tribute to JtRH 5.0.
quote:
the only backtracking issues I did not fix are the tar and mud based ones, as I am not sure if there are any 2.0 era elements I can use to lock the player in until they kill extra babies.

Add arrows facing in next to the green doors. You are then safe as long as the player can return with the room unsolved to the room entrance. (You might introduce unintended solutions by allowing the player to solve from the other direction, but in most cases that won't be a problem.) As before, consider where there might be a problem, even if you don't know how to do that. (I would guess L60:1W is in that category, which is challenge worthy.)
quote:
* Level 3 1E: While you normally should let the player explore the level freely, allowing them to exit the room uncleared after hitting the orb wouldn't work here because the player could also camp at the entrances/exits of the room and smite most of the roaches, and make the rest of them not a problem either as they are blocked off by the wall.

I am referring to before hitting the orb. You can leave the room, but can't continue because of the force arrows in the entrance room. Adding east arrows in the north passage, west arrows in the south, and south arrows between them to the west of the other arrows should be safe.
quote:
* Level 72 locks not preventing return: this is intentional, because it would be a major backtracking problem otherwise. I designed them so that they should only prevent going to the next room without the Slayer, in case you managed to kill him yourself or with a decoy.

You can kill the slayer, return to the previous room, and go through again. You want to make sure the rooms are solved with the slayer active.
quote:
Level 84 1S I did fix, but exiting back up north after killing the monsters was the intended solution. However, I changed it to exiting south by adding two evil eyes at the bottom.

I didn't see what you changed yet, but forcing the player to solve going south might be too hard. If the intended solution was to return north, leave it. (You can fix the issue of not having Halph hit the orb.)
09-02-2020 at 09:01 AM
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azb
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (+1)  
Okay, I will make versions clear in the changelog, and update the hold according to your suggestions. I am thinking to fix Level 72 being able to kill the Slayer and go back, I can add a yellow door cage around the monsters, with an orb that opens the cage and closes an open yellow door on the entrance to the room. I also notice that if you solve the room without the decoy, it is possible to break the lock by placing a decoy on one of the orbs; I will make those passageways all trapdoors.

I am not sure what you mean by adding force arrows pointing in for the tarstuff issues, as I believe that would probably just prevent the player from entering the next room entirely; do you think it would be reasonable to get rid of the green doors to allow the player to go back, while still preventing the player from leaving the level unsolved due to the blue doors at the end?

I will also get rid of the evil eyes in level 84 1S, in the spirit of preserving the original intended solution, and make going south a challenge rather than mandatory.

____________________________
If you enjoyed the other holds in
the Blank Dungeon series, please publicly test The Final Reckoning today!

[Last edited by azb at 09-02-2020 01:00 PM : Level 72 additional problem]
09-02-2020 at 12:58 PM
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azb
Level: Master Delver
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icon Re: Hundred Levels of Horror (0)  
I added the majority of the challenges that bbb suggested; the only ones that I don't know how to implement are the Level 7 Entrance challenge, which I know you can do but it requires more complicated scripting, and challenges like Level 8 whole or using the Slayer to kill the roaches in 9 entrance, because DROD currently does not check if a specific entity type is stabbed, or if a specific entity type (like the Player) kills something.

I do know how to add multiple potion challenges, but I didn't do them right now because I wanted to add and get feedback for the challenges gradually, like with the regular rooms, so I only added the most basic challenges scripting-wise.

____________________________
If you enjoyed the other holds in
the Blank Dungeon series, please publicly test The Final Reckoning today!
09-05-2020 at 01:40 PM
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