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Heroinefan
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icon ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
When can I play the VA'ed version of ATOTK, steam said something about 3 weeks?

Can I have now, via direct download?

''Ill sign a secrecy oath, use my capt midnight decoder ring, and give the secret handsake, and everything if you like''?

I don't like steam even though I have bought skyrim and stuff from them, there Client is intrusive and annoying, prefer gog. ''Bought more from them.

HQ Loki:

I admire Loki, a enemy creature that was able to join the pantheon. Perhaps he went too far but there is probably too sides to every story.

I kind of believe him as far as the ''game'' about sif being a whore.

Loki did not seem one bit silly to me. Just up to the stuff that all greek/roman gods god up to in mythos. He would have did better there.

Reminds me of a somewhat honorable, Dionysus but hey so did Jim Morrison in another way, ''maybe he went back home''.

Anyway why Did HEL not help loki and avenge her brother? If I was her I would have done so. My father would not be left like that a single day.

He could have stayed in the mists with his daughter? Moved in with her?
10-16-2017 at 03:40 PM
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Radiant
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
GOG has declined to host ATOTK, stating it was too much of a niche game for them. However, we will be hosting the game outside of Steam as well. Of course, the release date is not going to change for that.

quote:
Loki did not seem one bit silly to me. Just up to the stuff that all greek/roman gods god up to in mythos. He would have did better there.

One of the worst crimes in both Norse and Greek mythology (and frankly, in a lot of ancient societies) is abuse of Sacred Hospitality. While Loki got away with a lot of crimes, this is the one he's finally locked up for. As this is a major part of both gods' portfolios, Zeus Xenios would not have stood for it any more than Odinn Father-Of-Hosts did. Note that Hel is unable to leave Niflheim, and therefore not able to do a lot of avenging until Ragnarok comes.


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10-16-2017 at 06:15 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Radiant wrote:
GOG has declined to host ATOTK, stating it was too much of a niche game for them. However, we will be hosting the game outside of Steam as well. Of course, the release date is not going to change for that.

quote:
Loki did not seem one bit silly to me. Just up to the stuff that all greek/roman gods god up to in mythos. He would have did better there.

One of the worst crimes in both Norse and Greek mythology (and frankly, in a lot of ancient societies) is abuse of Sacred Hospitality. While Loki got away with a lot of crimes, this is the one he's finally locked up for. As this is a major part of both gods' portfolios, Zeus Xenios would not have stood for it any more than Odinn Father-Of-Hosts did. Note that Hel is unable to leave Niflheim, and therefore not able to do a lot of avenging until Ragnarok comes.



The way you portrayed him in the game, one would have to be very cold unjust not to sympathize with him.

I don't think Odin was bound with the entrails of his son even if his son was killed. That happened to Loki, and he was tortured, humiliated, being a deity non the less.

In my view even if I was a vengeance minded god, eye for an eye/roman law has been served along with the added extra for daring to challenge the king.

He is much more than locked up or cast out. Very much more.

Beyond that he should be killed or released into exile or thrown into the mist with hel ''literally into viking hell to rule there with his daughter for eternity.

The christian god was not even so cruel to Lucifer morning star, and he punishes children in the future generations...that never had anything to do with the crime being committed.

Yet, then again Lucifer was also his son, and brother of Christ if you think about it. In fact, he was Yahweh's first born spirit son born before the Archangel Michael, or so it is said.

Yet did Odin not call Loki a brother? There is treason on both sides here.

He should have been sent west, as they would say in the dark tower books.

To keep it up forever is sadism above and beyond, also illogical and disrespectful to anyone who at least was a member of there pantheon.

This is someone Odin recognized as a god after all, and once a brother.

Don't you see anything, tragically wrong here? Loki did nothing this horrible.

He is a trickster god, Symbol of chaos.

It is a given, that it was a horrid offense to turn on his own pantheon, one worthy to become a Devil, but this is a bit much.

OK I am playing devils advocate here, but someone all ways has to, to get a clear picture of a sitution. A balenced perspective if you will.

When no one dose, the death of reason breeds monsters.

Being truly righteous in my view means asking questions of yourself, daring to ask why, as they said of a paladin in quest for glory.

Game wise:

The Rusalka drowned people, she ''enjoyed'' it but she suffered, and the hero was kind to her. Even the domovoi and the undead Paladin sympathized.

Did she have a choice? To a degree probably, you cant really kid yourself about that. A woman scorned after all.

The paladin avenged her death and gave her the love of a man, loved her purely...she wanted that in life, and it was done. That is all.

Don't you see that was only true goodness because she was a dark creature? That a paladin could love her, even a little? That made the act remarkable.

It was easy for him to love Erana, a female version of himself a sister. Easy to sympathize.

When you turn to the cast down, the scorned woman as a considered action honestly felt, while maintaining your virtue...there is goodness.

This is not easy for such men, that are really what they clam to be...when its not simply corruption or fetish but virtue that drives one, such is damn hard, indeed.


Its all the difference in the world between a true Knight, and a flake that would turn on a brother or beloved, if they scented the slightest thing amiss.Caring more about the idea of goodness.

I was actually very impressed by your skrimyer's definition of honor, to me that sums up 80% of the definition of it. Honesty, integrity, Fealty. This is logical.

So you are clearly intelligent. No one could write some of the things about and contained within these 2 games and not be. (HQ and ATOTK).




[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-17-2017 03:30 PM]
10-17-2017 at 02:50 PM
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Radiant
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
You're judging him by modern values, whereas you should be looking at contemporary values. One of the worst crimes in both Norse and Greek mythology is abuse of Sacred Hospitality, and this is a major part of both Odinn's and Zeus's portfolio.

(also, please use proper paragraphs instead of

inserting

line breaks all

the time, it makes your text much easier on the eyes!)

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10-17-2017 at 03:08 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Radiant wrote:
You're judging him by modern values, whereas you should be looking at contemporary values. One of the worst crimes in both Norse and Greek mythology is abuse of Sacred Hospitality, and this is a major part of both Odinn's and Zeus's portfolio.

(also, please use proper paragraphs instead of

inserting

line breaks all

the time, it makes your text much easier on the eyes!)


quote:
niche game for them


What are they smoking?

They hosted quest for infamy, which is good only because we are a starved fan base. Don't tell me gogs going new age? That is a contradiction that annoys me.

One can actually play your games and get into them, and cares about the characters. ATOTK is a masterpiece.

I hate to say it, but its better than the kingsquest games except Alexander and land of the green Ilse, but nothing can top that.

I am really glad you did not listen to me, and others, and put silly stuff in like I said a year ago...like bender said in the breakfast club, my image of you would have been totally blown.

I have great ideas and opinions, but it may vary.

I have a really eccentric personalty, phases and a changeable mood. I relate somewhat to the damn Pooka/fae in that respect. I always know good art though.

Atotk is good art, GFI is rather bad art but somewhat amusing, yet it has a bitter aftertaste. Not bashing it, Im just saying gog put it in but not yours? Unbelivable.

Simply because, (GFI) none of it is really serious, its hard to take seriously. Moreover, the comedy is expected, nothing but jokes, therefor, its not really funny. That aspect of it just makes you tired.

On the other hand whiteblade could have used some more dry humor, but I could be wrong there, I'll admit it....it could be more romance he needs. You said, you were making him more with branyn in the remake?

I approve of what I have seen of her portrait in the video by the way. Well done.



[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-17-2017 04:10 PM]
10-17-2017 at 03:58 PM
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Radiant
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Heroinefan wrote: What are they smoking?

If you disagree with their decision, perhaps you should take that up with them ;)

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10-17-2017 at 04:12 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Radiant wrote:
quote:
Heroinefan wrote: What are they smoking?

If you disagree with their decision, perhaps you should take that up with them ;)


I could, but what good would it do in time for its release now? I am merely being sympathetic and stating my opinion that they should have hosted it, if they hosted another game of its genre but of lesser quality and merit.

I am implying, that it seems there integrity is in question, because of what GoG was supposed to stand for and why I supported the company. The spirit of the thing.

I am not complaining, but simply telling you, ATOTK's creator, these things. Why not?
10-17-2017 at 04:34 PM
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ConjurerDragon
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Heroinefan wrote:
quote:
Radiant wrote:
quote:
Heroinefan wrote: What are they smoking?

If you disagree with their decision, perhaps you should take that up with them ;)


I could, but what good would it do in time for its release now? I am merely being sympathetic and stating my opinion that they should have hosted it, if they hosted another game of its genre but of lesser quality and merit.


For that GOG has a forum with a wishlist where everyone can state what game he wanted on GOG and others can upvote the game.
And there is already an entry for TotK to which I can not post a link.




10-17-2017 at 05:00 PM
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
The link is here: https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/a_tale_of_two_kingdoms

But frankly, unless we get thousands of comments (and even more upvotes), it's unlikely GOG will be paying attention to this entry.
10-17-2017 at 11:23 PM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
I wonder what the real reason is? This is supposed to be GoGs, Niche. Is it because they don't want to carry any more free games? If so they should be ashamed when it comes to ATOTK. It really is a great game.

Steam will carry anything that took 1 day to make straight out of a kit, where the resources are bought in packs that appear barely slapped together in 100 similar games.

ATOTK is better than that, but then again, steam, they carry worthy titles too.

For fun though, you should see some of the youtube vids I have seen, of some of the there approved games. I spent hours watching them on youtube and laughing until I could take no more:

The ones with the wandering around, jump scares. Hilariously misspelled notes, inarticulate and out of context, left about, and with lore like a disturbed first grader. One trying to write a story for class. That style, but trying to be dead serious.

There could literally be, a game where the hero wagged his censored wing wang, in front of a mirror for half an hour, and with a little doctoring, steam would probably sell that too. I don't doubt it one bit.

[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-18-2017 03:24 AM]
10-18-2017 at 03:11 AM
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
What are they smoking? They hosted quest for infamy, which is good only because we are a starved fan base. Don't tell me gogs going new age? That is a contradiction that annoys me.

There are probably several factors here:

1) GOG accepted QFI when it was just a demo. This was back in 2012 when Kickstarter was a thing that everyone got excited about. Given the social media buzz, the QFI KS nearly tripling its goal and people being desperate for another QFG-like, the demo and concept must have appealed to them at the time.
2) I'm sure GOG has more than one person looking at game submissions. Each person will have different preferences and criteria.
3) If the reviewer doesn't get really deep into a game, it's quite easy to say it's not their cup of tea. Adventure games are niche, and not everyone likes them. They become even more niche when they are low res games.

quote:
I wonder what the real reason is? This is supposed to be GoGs, Niche. Is it because they don't want to carry any more free games? If so they should be ashamed when it comes to ATOTK. It really is a great game.

The deluxe edition of ATOTK won't be free by the way. We've paid a few thousand for voice actors already, and owe a bunch more to the other artist before paying ourselves anything, so we're hoping it'll sell enough to have at least an operating surplus.

As to why we're now selling games - basically, because getting good talent to voice / compose music etc costs money. Most people that we have helping us with game assets are no longer students with heaps of free time, so some of that time needs to be bought if we want our games to look and sound good.

10-18-2017 at 03:37 AM
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Heroinefan
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Fizzii wrote:
quote:
What are they smoking? They hosted quest for infamy, which is good only because we are a starved fan base. Don't tell me gogs going new age? That is a contradiction that annoys me.

There are probably several factors here:

1) GOG accepted QFI when it was just a demo. This was back in 2012 when Kickstarter was a thing that everyone got excited about. Given the social media buzz, the QFI KS nearly tripling its goal and people being desperate for another QFG-like, the demo and concept must have appealed to them at the time.
2) I'm sure GOG has more than one person looking at game submissions. Each person will have different preferences and criteria.
3) If the reviewer doesn't get really deep into a game, it's quite easy to say it's not their cup of tea. Adventure games are niche, and not everyone likes them. They become even more niche when they are low res games.

quote:
I wonder what the real reason is? This is supposed to be GoGs, Niche. Is it because they don't want to carry any more free games? If so they should be ashamed when it comes to ATOTK. It really is a great game.

The deluxe edition of ATOTK won't be free by the way. We've paid a few thousand for voice actors already, and owe a bunch more to the other artist before paying ourselves anything, so we're hoping it'll sell enough to have at least an operating surplus.

As to why we're now selling games - basically, because getting good talent to voice / compose music etc costs money. Most people that we have helping us with game assets are no longer students with heaps of free time, so some of that time needs to be bought if we want our games to look and sound good.



I'll pay 29.95 for it, sound about right? That's no matter what you charge if its under that amount. I'll include a little note this time, by sending it, if I can. You have my pledge on that if its set your own price, just hurry up and let my buy it lol. In all honesty I will go as high as a mmo expansion cost for it and likely get more enjoyment for my money.

I support this decision to charge out of indignation for you and ATOTK, and don't blame you. Is the voice of the father from the agdi kings quest going to be in it? I love that guy, and am a fan.

I gave up on mages initiation, I think its a scam, to keep getting more money long after the game is done. They will extend there stretch goal indefinitely. I could not have believed of agdi because those people are very very good.

In all fairness have waited many years and pre bought the game a long time ago.

Now I am excited about your game as the focus. Your people and they ''agdi'', are the only ones who make worthy games of this sort. Silverlining did not catch the spirit of the game and was pretty much ooc, the only thing going for it was the cute voice of the narrator.

I disapproved of the oddgentman's take on king quest to the point I had it reviewed bad on youtube and a couple sites by talking to friends. Raving actually.

Agdi reinvented kingsquest, but they did a great job on the other hand. Agdi caught the spirit of it. With others it's just like the horrible crap they did to deathnote and other anime, trying to make movies. Or how Opie tried to bucher the Dark Tower, more OOC crap.



[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-18-2017 02:08 PM]
10-18-2017 at 01:53 PM
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
I'll pay 29.95 for it, sound about right? That's no matter what you charge if its under that amount. I'll include a little note this time, by sending it, if I can. You have my pledge on that if its set your own price, just hurry up and let my buy it lol. In all honesty I will go as high as a mmo expansion cost for it and likely get more enjoyment for my money.

Thanks :) We're looking more around the $10 mark I think. It'll be out in just under two weeks; the non-Steam version will be on Itch.IO. I have to do another test on the latest build this weekend to make sure there aren't any major bugs; it's a bit hard for me to fit in the time nowadays with full time work and a not-yet toddler, but I still like to do some hobby work.
quote:
I support this decision to charge out of indignation for you and ATOTK, and don't blame you. Is the voice of the father from the agdi kings quest going to be in it? I love that guy, and am a fan.


No, the voice of the father from AGDI's KQ2 remake is not in the cast for ATOTK. We have a number of actors that voiced Heroine's Quest voicing characters in ATOTK, plus a number more who have voiced other well known indie games. So we did get a good choice of talent and hopefully you will like it.
quote:
I gave up on mages initiation, I think its a scam, to keep getting more money long after the game is done. They will extend there stretch goal indefinitely. I could not have believed of agdi because those people are very very good.


I don't think Mage's Initiation is a scam; rather, I think they've been overly ambitious and hence production has dragged out. It'll be interesting to see how the game plays when it is out, eventually.

With regards to spirit of the King's Quest games... personally I find the charm of the games is that it doesn't get super "dark" and remains fairly innocent (yes, there are bad guys, but they are straightforward bad guys). Coupled with mixing in actual fairytales and myths into the puzzles, and keeping the storylines otherwise straightforward (Most of the KQ's are about building / reuniting /saving family).

While I think AGDI did a good job with making KQ2 more cohesive, I personally didn't really like the addition of "The Father"... it was trying to tie everything together between all the King's Quests... and I don't think it was necessary to have a single bad guy behind each of the misfortunes which happened. I personally like to think of each of the incidents as separate unfortunate situations.

With TSL (which I don't think ever got finished?), they went even further to try and tie everything together, and went even more dark. And the writing was, frankly, not good. I don't really remember much integration with fairytales either, so that missed the mark for me.

I haven't played the new KQ by The Odd Gentlemen, but it strikes me they missed the tone of the classics by making Graham a cartoony figure. Graham was always an everyday, normal kind of guy who was, frankly, boring, but it meant that people could put themselves in his shoes better. Of what I've seen people say, it also misses the mark in that it doesn't have any references to fairytales, and apparently puzzle design gets quite poor in later episodes, in that it is the sort of puzzles people don't like. I don't think I'll be playing it, just doesn't look like it would appeal to me in any way.

10-19-2017 at 12:50 AM
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Danjen02
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
I remember reading years ago that ATOTK was originally going to have VA but didn't, because you couldn't find a suitable voice for Cuppit, among other things. Good to see it's finally happening, though.

quote:
Radiant wrote:
GOG has declined to host ATOTK, stating it was too much of a niche game for them. However, we will be hosting the game outside of Steam as well. Of course, the release date is not going to change for that.


That's honestly kind of dumb, since King's Quest, etc. is literally a game that is old and good. Just as well, I see you've got some stuff hosted on itch.io and that seems to be a decent enough place.

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10-19-2017 at 05:45 AM
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Heroinefan
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quote:
Fizzii wrote:
quote:
I'll pay 29.95 for it, sound about right? That's no matter what you charge if its under that amount. I'll include a little note this time, by sending it, if I can. You have my pledge on that if its set your own price, just hurry up and let my buy it lol. In all honesty I will go as high as a mmo expansion cost for it and likely get more enjoyment for my money.

Thanks :) We're looking more around the $10 mark I think. It'll be out in just under two weeks; the non-Steam version will be on Itch.IO. I have to do another test on the latest build this weekend to make sure there aren't any major bugs; it's a bit hard for me to fit in the time nowadays with full time work and a not-yet toddler, but I still like to do some hobby work.
quote:
I support this decision to charge out of indignation for you and ATOTK, and don't blame you. Is the voice of the father from the agdi kings quest going to be in it? I love that guy, and am a fan.


No, the voice of the father from AGDI's KQ2 remake is not in the cast for ATOTK. We have a number of actors that voiced Heroine's Quest voicing characters in ATOTK, plus a number more who have voiced other well known indie games. So we did get a good choice of talent and hopefully you will like it.
quote:
I gave up on mages initiation, I think its a scam, to keep getting more money long after the game is done. They will extend there stretch goal indefinitely. I could not have believed of agdi because those people are very very good.


I don't think Mage's Initiation is a scam; rather, I think they've been overly ambitious and hence production has dragged out. It'll be interesting to see how the game plays when it is out, eventually.

With regards to spirit of the King's Quest games... personally I find the charm of the games is that it doesn't get super "dark" and remains fairly innocent (yes, there are bad guys, but they are straightforward bad guys). Coupled with mixing in actual fairytales and myths into the puzzles, and keeping the storylines otherwise straightforward (Most of the KQ's are about building / reuniting /saving family).

While I think AGDI did a good job with making KQ2 more cohesive, I personally didn't really like the addition of "The Father"... it was trying to tie everything together between all the King's Quests... and I don't think it was necessary to have a single bad guy behind each of the misfortunes which happened. I personally like to think of each of the incidents as separate unfortunate situations.

With TSL (which I don't think ever got finished?), they went even further to try and tie everything together, and went even more dark. And the writing was, frankly, not good. I don't really remember much integration with fairytales either, so that missed the mark for me.

I haven't played the new KQ by The Odd Gentlemen, but it strikes me they missed the tone of the classics by making Graham a cartoony figure. Graham was always an everyday, normal kind of guy who was, frankly, boring, but it meant that people could put themselves in his shoes better. Of what I've seen people say, it also misses the mark in that it doesn't have any references to fairytales, and apparently puzzle design gets quite poor in later episodes, in that it is the sort of puzzles people don't like. I don't think I'll be playing it, just doesn't look like it would appeal to me in any way.



Dont play it Fuzzi, you'll go into a rage like I did, and it will ruin your day.

As for as the agdi remake, it ties in the remade 2 and 3, with a curse and prophesies. Its still fairly innocent, and did you know the voice of the father voiced other characters as well?

He is very talented and cultured. Remarks like I once served the king with my wisdom, to Alexzander in kq3, and ''what an interesting set of morals you have'' to King Ghram, really pushed him over the top for me as a villain.

That said I agree with you somewhat about the series of events, but having seen stuff like silverling and the ooc, island people disrespectful and crude, it was at least good that they got it wrong with feeling in the agdi.

Trial by fire, I was really happy with, nothing much changed but a small harmless fanfiction sense between the hero and his innkeeper friends over tea.

The revamped combat was a bit out of character for the rest of the games, as was earning spell boosts from challenging mini-games that would not carry over into the next game.

I never liked that the hero could not fully save Julanar though, was always dissatisfied with that. Even typing, kiss, repeatedly in the parser, did no good, or sleeping under the tree, implied. "Did you know how the original, sleeping beauty was written''?
..............................................................

As for as ATOTK, is it VA'ed and the art changed, or did you change the story and character interactions in some way? If its a secret, I understand but was curious. I trust you guys fully to do it right either way from your past work.





[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-19-2017 03:42 PM]
10-19-2017 at 03:39 PM
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Fizzii
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quote:
As for as ATOTK, is it VA'ed and the art changed, or did you change the story and character interactions in some way? If its a secret, I understand but was curious. I trust you guys fully to do it right either way from your past work.

Yes, we've added a voice pack to ATOTK, and we've also updated the art where I thought it needed improvement. Radiant has also improved the script so there is less thee and thou-ing, and there is a new interactive prologue too. I think the characters overall feel like they have more personality now, especially with the voices added.

Story and gameplay and puzzles is otherwise the same... it's a deluxe edition, not a reinvention/reimagination of our work (imo, if we're going to change the story, we might as well make a new game!).

[Last edited by Fizzii at 10-19-2017 11:47 PM]
10-19-2017 at 11:45 PM
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icon Re: ATOTK VA'ed question and HQ Loki lore, more thoughts. (0)  
quote:
Fizzii wrote:
quote:
As for as ATOTK, is it VA'ed and the art changed, or did you change the story and character interactions in some way? If its a secret, I understand but was curious. I trust you guys fully to do it right either way from your past work.

Yes, we've added a voice pack to ATOTK, and we've also updated the art where I thought it needed improvement. Radiant has also improved the script so there is less thee and thou-ing, and there is a new interactive prologue too. I think the characters overall feel like they have more personality now, especially with the voices added.

Story and gameplay and puzzles is otherwise the same... it's a deluxe edition, not a reinvention/reimagination of our work (imo, if we're going to change the story, we might as well make a new game!).


My thoughts exactly. This is what I hoped. The giant looks a bit like Peter weller, without hair, but I doubt you thought to get him..lol.

The queen was one of the few portraits that did not need changing, the only thing is, I hope you did not make her look like that blond norn. The fae queen I mean.

Alright shes amoral, but I like her, though not as much as the Pooka.

The most virtuous and honest as I said before is the Unseelie but many dark people often are and most loyal to there friends. In fact, the dark one is a die-hard moralist with what he views as the hero's best interest at heart on general principles and not really unkind, as we see as it unfolds.

Of the Norns, except for her feet, the blond one looks like a man, like Zoolander pal Hansel. So does the middle Norn, like Malcolm McDowell, whos a great actor...I mean he's right up there with Rutger Hauer on my all times favorite list... but a horrible female impersonator, as we see from Caligula.

[Last edited by Heroinefan at 10-20-2017 02:52 AM]
10-20-2017 at 02:50 AM
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