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b0rsuk
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Does it have advanced hold backup systems and so on ?
Such as "delete hold" button labeled "Do not push under any circumstances, even to see what happens!" ?

I've just deleted my whole hold under construction and need to blame someone. These six rooms took me months to make. At least the ideas are not lost.
--------------------

Does Beethro finally have set of face grimaces/shouts for being stuck ? Dying - such a niche way of defeat - has its own death sequence, so why not make some for being stuck ?

- one for stuck/misplaced mimic
- one for trapdoors
- one for tar in 2x2 corridors
- one for killing a goblin when there's a snake in the room
- one for a monster running into force arrows
...

[Edited by b0rsuk at Local Time:11-25-2004 at 12:05 PM]

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11-25-2004 at 11:55 AM
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mrimer
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b0rsuk wrote:
Does Beethro finally have set of face grimaces/shouts for being stuck ? Dying - such a niche way of defeat - has its own death sequence, so why not make some for being stuck ?
Good ideas. You can script up your own checks for these type of situations in specific rooms (not too hard to do), but otherwise these concepts are too general for the development of any kind of universal rules to indicate defeat.

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11-25-2004 at 07:08 PM
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b0rsuk
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What happens if I load full version hold (using 3 room styles) into limited version (1 room style) ?

a) hell freezes (not possible)
b) fancy bits are converted
c) everything works as supposed

[Edited by b0rsuk at Local Time:11-25-2004 at 08:15 PM]

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11-25-2004 at 08:14 PM
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joker5
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Another question about scripting: Can we use flags? I mean, can we say something like

"If Beethro reads a scroll at position (X,Y) then once he gets to a certain point, insult him"?

That would be cool.

~joker5

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11-25-2004 at 10:02 PM
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ErikH2000
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You guys are basically making feature requests--not really asking questions. Which is fine, I suppose, but you could just post them on the Feature Request board.

-Erik

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11-25-2004 at 10:26 PM
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DiMono
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Once we realise the release of Journey to Rooted Hold, will DROD:AE continue being supported by development staff? There will probably be people who want to play the first game so they have some idea what led up to JtRH, so my real question is will patches continue to come out for bugs found in AE?

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11-26-2004 at 03:52 AM
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joker5
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Probably not. The way I see it is that Erik&Co will simply convert Dugan's in to JtRH format and the old AE will be discontinued.

JtRH question: Will the general public be able to fool around with the editor prior to the release of the main hold, or is the developement gonna go (closed beta)->(more closed beta)->(more more closed beta)->(full release)?

~joker5

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11-26-2004 at 04:52 AM
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Scott
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The beta group doesn't even have access to the editor yet.
11-26-2004 at 05:06 AM
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AlefBet
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b0rsuk wrote:
What happens if I load full version hold (using 3 room styles) into limited version (1 room style) ?

a) hell freezes (not possible)
b) fancy bits are converted
c) everything works as supposed
I think the answer is b or c, depending on your viewpoint. The hold isn't changed and all the game elements work as supposed to, but everything will be seen in the Foundation style since the others aren't available. There's really nothing you can do in the other styles that you can't do in Foundation style, except make the room appear in a non-foundation style (if that makes sense).
joker5 wrote::
Another question about scripting: Can we use flags? I mean, can we say something like

"If Beethro reads a scroll at position (X,Y) then once he gets to a certain point, insult him"?
I'm not sure what you mean by flags, but you can have a character with a script working something like:
Wait for Beethro to be on <coordinates of scroll>.
Wait for Beethro to enter region <whatever>.
Say "<message>."

Then if Beethro reads the scroll and then goes to another region, you can tell him things. Is that what you want?

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11-26-2004 at 05:24 AM
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joker5
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Yay!

Again, I say hooray for the dev team.

~joker5

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11-26-2004 at 08:07 PM
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Zaratustra
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Can we make custom room styles?
11-28-2004 at 12:45 AM
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Stuwy
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I don't know if this came to your minds yet dev team, (since you guy's are still busy with JtRL) But will future releases of drod will be sort of an "expansion pack" to JtRL or are you going to make entirely new artwork/game?


11-28-2004 at 01:04 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Zaratustra wrote:
Can we make custom room styles?
From what I've heard, there *is* a way, but it may get extremly complicated with files being buried in order to find them. I'll wait for Erik to give us a solid word on the subject, though.

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11-28-2004 at 01:22 AM
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ErikH2000
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Stuwy wrote:
I don't know if this came to your minds yet dev team, (since you guy's are still busy with JtRL) But will future releases of drod will be sort of an "expansion pack" to JtRL or are you going to make entirely new artwork/game?
The distinction between "expansion pack" and "new game" is going to be really blurry due to our open source licensing obligations. The thing that we sell is levels/graphics/music/audio and it is separate from the engine. The engine is always free. When we release a new DROD title, the free engine may be updated with new monsters and other features. Note that it is possible to add graphics and music without updating the engine.

-Erik

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11-28-2004 at 01:38 AM
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ErikH2000
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
From what I've heard, there *is* a way, but it may get extremly complicated with files being buried in order to find them. I'll wait for Erik to give us a solid word on the subject, though.
Yep, what he said. :) Basically, the same tools we used to make our holds will be available to you, but we aren't necessarily going to refine them all to a high degree of user friendliness. Mods like "Beethro in Space" and "Demons of Color" will probably be more difficult to do than before. If that sounds bad, hold your judgment until you get a chance to play with the new editor. In particular, the new scripting interface is wonderfully simple and powerful thanks to Mike's design.

-Erik

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11-28-2004 at 01:44 AM
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gamer_extreme_101
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Well, the article mentions that you can import images into the file...does that just mean that we'll have to create the images beforehand and import them into the hold file one element at a time?

I do, however, remember Matt saying thatthe GeneralTiles files will be similar, but a bit different. Will it at least be normal?

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11-28-2004 at 01:50 AM
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ErikH2000
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gamer_extreme_101 wrote:
Well, the article mentions that you can import images into the file...does that just mean that we'll have to create the images beforehand and import them into the hold file one element at a time?
Yeah, you can import images for special floor types, and to an extent this would let you create something that looks like a totally different style. Like if you wanted green-and-purple checkerboard floor in certain rooms--no problem. But you'd have to figure out how to use the dev tools to do something like change the tiles used for walls.
I do, however, remember Matt saying thatthe GeneralTiles files will be similar, but a bit different. Will it at least be normal?
We don't plan to have GeneralTiles or Style* image files to edit. Images are stored in a monolithic database file. More importantly, the graphics from JtRH will not be released into public domain like we did with AE, so you can't legally distribute modified copies of the JtRH graphics. For people ambitious about modding, a correct approach would be to make a brand new set of images and figure out how to use the developer tools for creating new styles with the images.

-Erik

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11-28-2004 at 02:26 AM
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ErikH2000
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It seems I was incorrect about some things related to how you go about modding with JtRH. I talked to Mike and he straightened me out. So some corrections:

1. The number of styles for this release is hard-coded to three. You would need to change source and rebuild JtRH to add a larger number of styles, which would be possible because we will release source code, but... non-trivial.

2. You can easily replace the existing bitmaps by putting your own into a certain directory. You just won't find existing files to overwrite, because we are hiding them away in a monolithic database file to discourage their redistribution. All of the bitmaps that are distributed with JtRH aren't meant to be redistributed.

3. We plan to release a separate public domain set of "blank" graphics for use in modding projects. These will be something you can use as a reference for changes.

4. Later on in some future release we'll probably add something that makes it easier to add extra styles, but not promises.

5. What is the name of the disease which creates a compulsion to prefix every point made with a number?

-Erik

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11-28-2004 at 06:18 AM
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AlefBet
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ErikH2000 wrote:
5. What is the name of the disease which creates a compulsion to prefix every point made with a number?
You are aware that you can turn any statement into a question by adding the words "are you not" to the end, are you not?

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11-28-2004 at 07:01 AM
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That's not exactly true, are you not?
11-28-2004 at 07:14 AM
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AlefBet
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Rabscuttle wrote:
That's not exactly true, are you not?
Indeed. I noticed the same thing when I heard it but I still thought it amusing enough to share here. Strictly speaking you have to add "You are aware that" to the beginning as well, but it makes the quip too long to sound pithy.

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11-28-2004 at 07:29 AM
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Mattcrampy
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5. What is the name of the disease which creates a compulsion to prefix every point made with a number?

Possibly autism? Maybe Asperger's syndrome. Or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

(It's funny, I've been falsely diagnosed with all of these.)

Matt

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11-28-2004 at 01:50 PM
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cheese obsessive
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With the whole scripting thing...are you able to say "make mimic potion appear at point whatever when X number of roaches are killed?"
11-28-2004 at 02:24 PM
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eytanz
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No.

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11-28-2004 at 02:27 PM
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masonjason
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[derailment]Weird, Matt! I've been falsely diagnosed with Asperger's too, and moreover attended a school for people with Asperger's for six years. Nice to meet you. [/derailment]

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11-28-2004 at 05:37 PM
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Some questions that got lost in the shuffle:

Rabscuttle wrote:
In AE, the move-count on the demo screen includes mimic-placement, but the move-count in the pop-up box does not. I remember reading somewhere that this will be fixed in JtRH, but which way round is it? ie. will mimic (and decoy) placement be included in move count?
I think I saw something mentioned elsewhere about this being fixed...I'm not sure though.
Decoys:
Are brains fooled by decoys? (I'm guessing no)
No, the brain is never fooled. But if the decoy is in range of normal monsters and not in range of the brain, the monsters will still go for the decoy (the possibility of fresh meat overrides the brain's directions).
Are wraithwings scared of them?
All monsters (except brains and things like tar mothers of course) act as if the decoy is really Beethro. This includes wraithwings and roach queens.
Do they awaken evil-eyes? (if in decoy-range)
Yes, only if in range.
Can they be destroyed by swordage?
Yes.

Game on,

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11-29-2004 at 05:12 PM
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AlefBet
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Do they awaken evil-eyes? (if in decoy-range)
Yes, only if in range.
Actually, a decoy will awake an evil eye even if out of range. We decided this added more puzzle potential, because you could awake an evil eye without having to have it immediately get trapped by the decoy's influence.

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11-29-2004 at 05:29 PM
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eytanz
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Decoys:
Are brains fooled by decoys? (I'm guessing no)
No, the brain is never fooled. But if the decoy is in range of normal monsters and not in range of the brain, the monsters will still go for the decoy (the possibility of fresh meat overrides the brain's directions).

Actually, that's not how it works - the brain itself will never be fooled, and will direct monsters outside the decoy's range to Beethro, but monsters inside a decoy's range will head to the decoy, whether or not the brain is also in the decoy's range (though the brain won't help them get to the decoy).

Note that this interaction may change before the final release.

[Edited by eytanz at Local Time:11-29-2004 at 05:35 PM]

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11-29-2004 at 05:32 PM
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Oneiromancer
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Gah...I even went and tested everything but I didn't notice those subtleties. Oops.

Game on,

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11-29-2004 at 05:50 PM
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Are wraithwings scared of them?
All monsters (except brains and things like tar mothers of course) act as if the decoy is really Beethro. This includes wraithwings and roach queens.

Does this mean, say, if Beethro was below a decoy potion ( a long way below) and a wraithwing was 5 squares above it, the wraithwing will move down and up alternately? Since it would keep coming towards Beethro and then moving away from the decoy potion.. or am I out by one square here and the wraithwing will stop just inside the edge of the decoy range?
11-29-2004 at 08:07 PM
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