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GerAvos
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File: Avos Dungeon.hold (14.3 KB)
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icon Avos' Dungeon (+5)  
I took my time with testing this hold myself, but now I've finished it :D. From today on I'll leave this hold open for public beta testing for 2 weeks or so. I'm open for any feedback. Let me know what you think too if you play this.

Screenshots:
Click here to view the secret text


This is a very simple and short hold that I specifically made for my brother who is a beginner at this game like I am. There is no story. It's great for beginners, but it can also be fun for long time DROD players who are looking for a break from all the other mind bending holds out there.

I hope you like it. :)

[Last edited by GerAvos at 06-07-2016 12:20 PM]
06-02-2016 at 09:06 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (+3)  
In the middle of Just finished playing this now. This is a really nice beginner hold -- there are very few holds at this difficulty level that are well-designed and fun to play, but this hits that sweet spot.

Comments and suggestions:

Level 1 4E: Checkpoint(s).
Level 2 exit: Because the room can be entered before dropping the blue door, and is empty, it will create a save at that time, and not when re-entered at the end of the level. Therefore, it should have a checkpoint just for the benefit of players who like being able to see the complete level in the Restore screen (as well as going back to look for secrets, though it doesn't appear there are secret rooms in the levels so far). Level 1 doesn't urgently need a checkpoint in its exit room because the room can only be entered after dropping the blue door, but it's good to get into the habit of having a checkpoint in your level exits.
Level 3 The Entrance: Unintended solution. The room can be exited (by the stairs) even if the pressure plate is hit.
Level 3 1N2E: Checkpoints at (22,22) and (11,7).
Level 3 1N3E: Consider using another floor type. Force arrows don't show up very well.
Level 3 3E: At least one checkpoint would be nice.
Level 3 1S1E: See earlier comments about force arrows and checkpoints.
Level 4 2N: This is the first room I didn't really like. It doesn't show anything new, since the freezing beam was already shown, and turning your sword to block the beams is repetitive. A checkpoint would be nice in case the player messes up the second bit (even though it's easy, politeness never hurts :P )
Level 4 1N3E: Checkpoint.
Level 5 1N1W: Checkpoint in the first area. It takes quite a bit of pushing to get all five opals to the right spots, and it's easy to make a slip and have to restart.
Level 5 2N3W: Checkpoints!
Level 6 1N: A little underwhelming for a final room. How about making the player fight a few rock giants instead of just one?

Finished the hold. That was really fun :thumbsup The opals are a very nice puzzle element -- they are similar to mirrors, of course, but mirrors can be pushed with the sword, and taking this away made several of the puzzles require a bit more thought. I liked the way you restricted yourself to a small palette of elements, but included timeclones -- you made some very nice puzzles with these that were satisfying to solve but would still be accessible to beginners.

My favourite rooms in the hold were 3:2S2E, 4:2N1E, and 5:2N3W.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 06-02-2016 10:50 PM]
06-02-2016 at 09:58 PM
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superluminal
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (+1)  
I agree with Nuntar, this is a fantastic hold for beginners! There's a lot of movement puzzles to train the fingers, some basic manipulation puzzles, and a few rooms that makes the mind stop and rethink things. That's great!

I'll echo what Nuntar said with a few things I noticed while playing:
* Put checkpoints in rooms with stairs to make it easier for players to restore.
* Level 1 seems to drag on just a little too long. But I'm not a total beginner, so my opinion isn't the most useful.
* I really liked Level 2: 2N 1W! Manipulation puzzles like that are super fun. And, it's a great lesson for newbies, since the room doesn't have any extraneous elements to confuse things.
* Level 3 entrance has an unintended solution. Putting an open yellow door to block off the stairs would fix this.
* I like that you used powder kegs everywhere instead of bombs. If I was in charge of paring down DROD elements, I'd definitely remove bombs in favor of kegs. They're much cooler.
* Opals were a great custom element to add. Since they can't be nudged out of corners like mirrors can, body positioning becomes so important. I really liked their use throughout the hold: not too many, and never used annoyingly.
* If you're looking for an unobtrusive way to make force arrows show up more easily, you can put bridge tiles beneath them. Bridges are dark enough to provide a lot of contrast.
* Level 3 1N 2E is a fantastic room. Patience is a virtue!
* Level 3 1N 1E is also pretty clever.
* Level 5 3N has some great red herrings that are sure to trip up players who aren't paying close attention. Great room!
* Level 6 1S has an unintended solution. I didn't use either the opal or the temporal token. Instead, I used an aumtlich to burn the fuse at (15,15). Great "final exam" room, though!

This was a lot of fun! I'd recommend this hold (among many others) to newbies, and it probably wouldn't be unfun to the experts either.

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06-02-2016 at 11:31 PM
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GerAvos
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
Thanks for the feedback!

For Level 2 exit, does it matter if I put the checkpoint before or after the blue door? I haven't used Restore that much so of course I'm not sure how it works.

About Level 4 2N, I agree it's repetitive but I'll leave it like that now.

About the unintended solution for Level 6 1S, how did you manage to get an aumtlich all the way there? xD You're supposed to just kill them. Not sure yet how to fix this one.

I fixed everything else that you guys mentioned. I'll wait until later before I upload the update.
06-03-2016 at 01:32 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
The way Restore works is, if you step on a checkpoint, you can restore from the most recent time you stepped on it. So it doesn't really matter if the checkpoint is before or after the door.
06-03-2016 at 01:46 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (+1)  
GerAvos wrote: About the unintended solution for Level 6 1S, how did you manage to get an aumtlich all the way there? xD You're supposed to just kill them. Not sure yet how to fix this one.
Leave it in as a challenge, of course. Unintended solutions are only a problem if they're easier than the main solution.

If you want to make it an "official" challenge, put a scroll somewhere saying "Challenge: Don't use the temporal split token" (don't mention the aumtlich -- leave it to the player to work out how to achieve this) and place a character with this script:

Wait for entity Player at (location of temporal split token)
Set var ChallengeFail = 1

and another with this script:

Set var ChallengeFail = 0
Wait while entity Monster at (entire room)
If...
Wait until var ChallengeFail = 0
Challenge completed (challenge name)
If End
End


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06-03-2016 at 02:57 PM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
That script will immediate award the challenge when you enter the room after clearing it.

Id post a fixed version if I wasnt on my phone right now.

Edit: no wait that an end command at the end not if end. Ignore me.

[Last edited by kieranmillar at 06-03-2016 04:51 PM]
06-03-2016 at 04:49 PM
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GerAvos
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
Cool, thanks for the script. I've put the scroll and added the script to the room. I actually managed to complete the challenge myself too.

Updated the first post with the new hold file. Other than the challenge, there is nothing else that's new.

By the way, if a player does not do the challenge and finish the hold, will it display the "(100%)" next to the hold name for them anyway?

[Last edited by GerAvos at 06-03-2016 06:44 PM]
06-03-2016 at 06:42 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
The percentage count is for secret rooms only. Challenges are completely separate from that.

If a hold doesn't have any secret rooms, it won't display a percentage at all on the ending screen, and it will display 100% on the hold list after completion.
06-03-2016 at 06:52 PM
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bomber50
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
Played through this, enjoyed it. Fun little hold, with many interesting puzzles that weren't too hard. L2 2N1W, L4 2N1E, and L5 1N1W were my favourite rooms. Agree with most of the comments above.

L2 3N1E: This room feels a little easy for L2, perhaps make more difficult?
L4 2N: This room is a little bland, it might be cool to add an opal here and use it to block aumtlich beam(s). I don't recall that being used in any other room.
L6 1S: Challenge: Don't use the temporal split token or move the opal.

[Last edited by bomber50 at 06-04-2016 01:18 AM]
06-04-2016 at 01:16 AM
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GerAvos
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icon Re: Avos' Dungeon (0)  
Using an opal in Level 4 2N is a great idea I didn't think of! Thanks. I changed that room to this: http://i.imgur.com/EojeLJs.jpg

Went ahead and submitted this now. There's a credits scroll at the end mentioning everyone who provided feedback! ;)

[Last edited by GerAvos at 06-09-2016 09:00 PM]
06-06-2016 at 12:02 AM
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