disoriented
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File: FegundoGentryii.hold (22.3 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Attached is a hold containing a room from a hold in development. The linchpin of the room illustrates an issue that was brought up on the hold's beta board and noted as a bug by skell. Posting it here for tracking purposes and to capture public discussion.

Issue: Fegundos do not explode when they attempt to cross a diagonal gentryii chain. When the fegundo directly hits a tile containing the chain, it does explode. However, if it attempts to cross a chain into an empty tile, it remains in place (similarly as fegundos interact with force arrows and orthosquares).

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[Last edited by disoriented at 03-21-2016 06:18 PM]

uncopy2002
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For the record, I tested fegundo trying to move across a diagonal chain with all sort of things on the other side, and found that:

- Nothing on the other side can cause the fegundo to explode. Not even weapons.
- A decoy putting a weapon on top of a fegundo just across the chain doesn't make it explode either.

So at least this is consistent, and we just need to decide if this is not how they ought to behave.

Doom
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This was definitely around in 5.0.1 because disoriented's hold that used this behavior was made months before 5.1. And yes, it still works like this in 5.1

skell
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Are there any other cases where trying to cross chains diagonally behaves like arrows? I checked puffs and pushing them through kills them on the other side which is consistent with how a wall would work.

Disoriented, was that hold released? If yes, I fear you will have to fix it, because it's pretty clearly a bug, unless it can be proven otherwise. Consistency dictates that crossing chains is the same as walking into an obstacle, not being stopped by the magical forces of arrows/orthosquares.

Edit: looking at the code there does not seem to be any suggestion that it is an intended behavior - it uses a function called "DoesSquarePreventDiagonal()" which back in the fegundo days was used only for orthosquares (which I'd call are one of the magical items), and then when gentryii chain happened its handling was tacked on at the end.

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[Last edited by skell at 10-01-2020 08:41 AM]

Doom
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skell wrote:
Disoriented, was that hold released? If yes, I fear you will have to fix it

My previous post was made when disoriented's hold was still in the HA queue. The questionable room was replaced before promotion, since we also felt like this was unintended behaviour.

I'm not aware of any rooms in published holds that are affected by this issue and need to be fixed.

skell
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Thanks Doom!

PR Posted.

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Doom
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Having just spent a bit of time looking at roomsearch for gentryii+fegundo to see if I missed anything, there's one more case that warrants looking at.

Blind Race #3: Gentryii 1N2E

This room requires that a fegundo moves against a diagonal gentryii chain without exploding. The difference is, there's an orthosquare on the other side of the chain.

There's another thread about this on the HA forum where Kieran considered this possibility (of course someone had to make a room about it!). It'd be good to have an official ruling to verify if this room is OK.

kieranmillar wrote:
Something else to mull over, what if there is an orthosquare or opposing force arrow on the other side of the chain? It makes more sense for me to think that the fegundo strikes the chain first and still blows up, but it definitely needs consideration.

skell
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In 5.1.0 when Fegundo attempts to move onto anything that would cause an explosion, if there is also an arrow or ortho square blocking the path it won't explode. Meaning, fegundo flying into a wall that has a force arrow won't cause the fegundo to explode. I've assumed the same for chain - the magical properties of arrows/ortho-squares causes them to block the fegundo before it hits the chain diagonal.

See the test cases.

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mauvebutterfly
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As I recall the orthosquares were specifically added to the blind race room because the gentryii chain and fegundo interaction was seen as a bug to be avoided.

Hopefully this didn't end up causing any unforeseen issues now that the bug is being looked into.

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Dragon Fogel
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Xindaris made a room (I think in a contest hold... DROD Standard, maybe?) that has a scroll describing this behavior, but it's not needed to complete that room.

And yes, in the Blind Race room the original version was dependent on the questionable chain behavior and the orthosquares were added with the intention that the room would still work if the behavior was fixed.

I vaguely remember there was another room that did something similar but it might be in Entry Point rather than anything published.

Dragon Fogel
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Okay, I misremembered the room Xindaris made that I was thinking of, which turned out to be Spacetime Kerfluffle - Final Bastion 1N2W. Maybe it just came up in conversation as something that could happen in that room and I somehow conflated it with the hint scroll text (which doesn't even mention the fegundos at all).

kieranmillar
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Can confirm in 5.1.1.alpha.2020-10-16 that a fegundo will explode when trying to move across a diagonal gentryii chain, except when there is a, orthosquare or opposing force arrow on the other side.