DiMono
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Alright, so the contest ran, prizes were won, and fun was had by all who competed. Unfortunately, only 4 holds were entered in to the contest between the two runnings, not counting agaricus' 3 rooms and Matty Cramp's time error. For the benefit of future contests, I ask this question to the people who did not compete:

What kept you from entering?

Please, I really do mean for this to be a serious evaluation of the contest, so I would appreciate lots of constructive criticism of the rules, the time alotted, and anything else that you felt was just not quite right about the contest.

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Stefan
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It was the time limit that made me back out. I tried to participate in the second running, but had to realize that I'm just too slow an architect. I had lots of ideas, and I knew exactly how I should incorporate them into the hold, but that's not nearly enough for this type of contest. I gave up when the second theme was announced, because I had only managed to make half a room by then.

It was a very good idea for a contest, but I think the time limit was too tight (at least for me).

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eytanz
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Several factors kept me from participating, most of which don't generalize to other people (I had work to complete, and it was my father's birthday, plus I'm trying to save room ideas for another hold I'm working on) but the major one was the very strict time requirements. In both the first and second contest, I was unable to participate for the first hour because of other scheduling constraints, and there was no humanly possible way to join in in the middle.

One thing that could have done is instead of requiring each entry to include all three themes, is to devise scoring in such a way that entries which only include one or two of the themes can also participate, albeit at a handicap. I probably would have joined in then.


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gamer_extreme_101
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Firstly, these all all my opinions. Please don't take them personally.

To start with, I found the idea to be a bit half-baked. If 20 forum members had decided to compete and all submitted holds, you would end up needing to play 19 holds in a row in order to win the prizes. Secondly, I did try making a hold, but found it hard to commit that much time in a row. I'd always have to do some chore or grab a bite to eat, and that stopped me from finishing my first level before I decided to stop.

However, my main reason for not finishing was because I'm not the world's best architect or player. Yes, I will do a bit of casual playing/building from time to time, but I find that I am better at the creative thinking contests.

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DiMono
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Don't worry about offending me, I genuinely want to know what was wrong with the contest that kept people out of it.

And I thought I was being clear when I said you don't need a finished hold to enter. Was I not? Should I have phrased it differently to say "don't worry if you can't finish designing all 3 levels, or only do 1 or 2, your entry will still be valid"?

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gamer_extreme_101
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I think people thought you had to do all 3 levels was because you emphasized the fact that each level has it's own theme. If you didn't do a theme, they might have thought that it was a complete entry, therefore would be void. Does that make sense?

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wackhead_uk
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The things that kept me from entering:

1. Paintballing during the first one (anyone want a picture of the big blood blister on my leg from that?)

2. The second one was a bit late, for me.

Oneiromancer
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I didn't have the time to play. And even if I did, I wouldn't want to take rank points away from those who, well, don't have an infinite amount.

Game on,

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Doom
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I didn't have the time to play. And even if I did, I wouldn't want to take rank points away from those who, well, don't have an infinite amount.

I think, you mean mod points

You don't have infinite rank points

Oneiromancer
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I guess I'm not distinguishing between reality and possibility.

Game on,

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wackhead_uk
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Well, you better not have a rank point leak like Erik, or you could have none! Remember: Dont try complicated bicycle tricks while getting a free ride off a train en route to canada.

Oneiromancer
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File: Infinity.JPG (5.7 KB)
Downloaded 466 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Oneiromancer wrote:
I guess I'm not distinguishing between reality and possibility.

And now I don't have to!



Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer at Local Time:10-18-2004 at 09:31 PM]

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

DiMono
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Oneiromancer wrote:

Oneiromancer wrote:
I guess I'm not distinguishing between reality and possibility.

And now I don't have to!

See, that's just not right...

Anyway, Dungeons of Snoll. Relevant question: If a similar contest were designed for the future, only the time was more flexible and the guidelines better defined, would it be worth the time to run it?

I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether the problem was with the concept of the contest, or just the way I wrote it up.

[Edited by DiMono at Local Time:10-19-2004 at 04:34 AM]

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eytanz
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I think the inflexibility of the time was the main problem for me. Otherwise, I would participate.

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wackhead_uk
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Well it does record the time/date which you made the hold in the editor, does it not? So if you just did the same thing, but revealed the new holds every day, then people would have enough time. More rooms in each level, though.

ErikH2000
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I just want to say that I'm very appreciative of the work DiMono went through for the contest. It can be embarrassing when you throw a party and not so many guests show up as you intended. Some of the contests I did were a bit like that, and nearing the contest start I'd get worried about participation. It's harder than it looks to get these things going! Writing rules for a new type of contest is particularly tricky. You have to imagine what people are going to do once they start, where ambiguities and problems keeping things fair will arise. You have to write the announcement so it is interesting and entices people to play. It's hard work, really, and I figure DiMono was a good guy for it, because of his excellent writing skills. His contest was probably the most ambitious one to date, since it combined hold authoring and hold playing in one big meta-game to contain them both. I don't think this contest had large faults; it just seems people mainly didn't want to commit as much time as was needed. I hope DiMono will run other contests in the future.

-Erik

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DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

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I can assure you, Erik, as long as I can keep coming up with ideas I'll keep running contests. All that's missing out of this one now, is for Matt to assign the rank points to those who have rightfully earned them:

Doom: 105
Sim: 55
Agaricus: 25

jdyer: 105
Rabscuttle: 60
Stefan: 25

As far as contests go, I'll see you all next month!

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Schik
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DiMono wrote:
All that's missing out of this one now, is for Matt to assign the rank points to those who have rightfully earned them:

I'll take care of this right now.

Edit: aaaaaand Done.


[Edited by Schik at Local Time:10-20-2004 at 03:20 AM]

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Stefan
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Matt already gave me 25 points, so I shouldn't get any more...

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ErikH2000
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Hey, JDyer!

What do you want for a prize? Free copy of JtRH? If you'd rather have something from the DROD store, e-mail me with your address. Also, my apologies if you already told me and I missed it. I am making an effort today to get the contest info organized.

-Erik

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NoahT
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Two reasons I didn't enter:

1. I've been getting to caught up with school. I'm not allowed on the computer unless I've done some of (or all of) my homework.

2. I don't think I'd be able to make a hold fast enough. I not a very fast person. All the more reason for following the suggestions made in this thread.

BTW, Erik, if I wanted to run my own contest (somehow fit it around school, or wait till winter break), would I have to do something special like pass a test first? Thanks.

-Noah

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My stuff:

ErikH2000
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NoahT wrote:
BTW, Erik, if I wanted to run my own contest (somehow fit it around school, or wait till winter break), would I have to do something special like pass a test first? Thanks.

Well, I am pretty conservative about the contests and who runs them. If you are really interested in running a contest, I recommend coming up with an "unofficial" contest and posting it as a rough draft on the forum for critique. I.e. "Here is my contest idea. What do you guys think?" Then you might change your contest rules a bit in response to feedback. After this little review period, make an announcement to start the contest. If we can come up with a fun contest that has well-crafted rules, then I'm happy to throw in some rank point prizes. I won't chip in with an item from the DROD Store, because... well, it costs me a bit of money, and I don't want my budget to get out of hand. Note that DiMono ran an unofficial scavenger hunt contest a while back, and it was pretty successful.

This same offer goes out to anyone else interested in running an unofficial contest.

-Erik

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Mikko
Level: Master Delver
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There is one clear problem with the rules here. There is no point in designing rooms that look nice or are fun to play, because it's all just about how long it takes to complete them. This doesn't encourage what I'd consider as good architecture.

The themes were also a bit ambiguous. How do you decide if a room follows a particular theme or not? The messing about with all the demos is not exactly nice either, but that's just a minor inconvenience.

Speaking of running an unofficial contest, I have an idea that I quite like. If I did run a contest, is there some convenient way to give a lot of rank points at once? I don't feel like pressing the +1 link 50 times with my slow modem connection.

Mattcrampy
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Ask a mod. We have a way to award rank points and mod points in bulk.

Matt

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Watcher
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Sorry I'm late on this.

I didn't participate for two reasons. First, I'm not a very good architect, so there's no way I'd be able to make a hold quickly enough. Second, I happened to be away for the entire day of the contest.

I think the short time given was the main problem. In any sort of "marathon" contest, where everything happens within a day or two, even a minor event can prevent a person from participating in the contest. It's too bad, because the contest idea was quite interesting.

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DiMono
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Ironically, my original concept was five levels over six hours for designing, but the people I was talking with felt making it that long would detract from people's interest. Do you think it would have been better if it were more of a commitment?

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wackhead_uk
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Over six hours would be even more constricting - it is possible to set aside a couple of hours, maybe, but 6 hours would be too long. I think it would have been better to let the contestants design all the themes over a week, about 2 days for each, so that people can think of really good puzzles, and have time to bug-test them and then only at the end of the week release them so that people can do the demos for other people's holds, making that the part that was a real test of time. Just my opinion.