karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 263
Registered: 03-28-2009
IP: Logged

File: 2014-07-24 Temporal clone bumping.jpg (173.1 KB)
Downloaded 385 times.
License: Public Domain

This is how clones replay:

Temporal clones record a sequence of successful actual moves. If a move attempt was blocked by an obstacle when the recording was being made, it will not attempt to make that move in the future, even if the blockage has been removed.

This is all fine, and is behavior for the player to figure out by trial and error.

However, I think there is a bug in the way that the temporal clone indicates what it is going to try next. Currently it isn't possible to distinguish between:

A. In the past I tried to go west, but the way was blocked.
B. In the past I successfully moved west.

Use Chronometric Ruins: 1N2W as an example



Here I brought the clone up to the closed door, and banged against it a few times, then walked away.

On replay, I see the clone tell me it is going to try and go west, but it doesn't do it. Then after a few moves it tells
me it's going to try east and it does do it.

The behavior I'd like to see is a short stutter if the way way blocked in the past, and the current behavior if the move was successful.

There's some discussion here:

karlpopper wrote: But currently I'm feeling a bit cheated

____________________________
76th SkyWatcher
When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

---

[Last edited by karlpopper at 07-24-2014 05:52 PM : Added reference]

Someone Else
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1304
Registered: 06-14-2005
IP: Logged

I kinda feel that it should just report "I didn't move in the past" if the time chappy bumped against something in the past.

The spitemaster
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 354
Registered: 06-09-2005
IP: Logged

mmmmm. I don't really know. The copy isn't really you so it only reveals actual moves. For example, if your script requires for the player to bump a character, you can't get the copy to trigger it.

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 920
Registered: 07-18-2009
IP: Logged

It definitely has to record bumping. Otherwise temporal clones wouldn't be able to hit orbs with their body, kill adjacent golems with a dagger etc. The ability to bump has some unintuitive consequences (ones that are even more strange than what's mentioned here), but is necessary.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

---

[Last edited by blorx1 at 07-25-2014 01:59 AM]

karlpopper
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 263
Registered: 03-28-2009
IP: Logged

I think we can rely on the new "I'm not evil" mrimer to help make the temporal clone's replay semantics clearer in-game.

He no longer wants DRODers to suffer unnecessarily; although I can't help feeling he is cackling reading all the stuff about ultimate undo, because temporal clones effectively neutralize it.

I groaned inwardly when I realised that a single misstep
at the end of a temporal clone's programming means you have to start again, undo doesn't really save you.

(and yeah PMIT's optimizations are jaw-dropping)

____________________________
76th SkyWatcher
When the only tool you have is a Really Big Sword, all problems start to look like Giant Roaches

skell
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3734
Registered: 12-28-2004
IP: Logged

Changed as follows:
1. When previewing a bump move, the slide will reverse in the middle of a tile and go back to start to indicate it's a bump
2. The preview itself stays fully opaque until half of its time passes, so that it's a bit more readable

PR

____________________________
My website | Facebook | Twitter

kieranmillar
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2670
Registered: 07-11-2014
IP: Logged

Can confirm both 1 and 2 above are in 5.1.1.alpha.2020-10-18 and are working as described.