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zex20913
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
The Eighth is not actually a literal pie. It is pie-shaped.


Is it alright if I still call it "the cherry dimension" then? Just for kicks? :P

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06-04-2003 at 12:11 AM
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agaricus5 wrote:
Don't worry Erik...What you will see is just a friendly scientific argument...

Certainly.
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Implode and explode? Is someone trying to mess around with space-time, mass and relativity for some unknown reason? :)

This is an entirely different reality, so you have to figure out the rules from scratch. And some of them probably weren't meant to be figured. Sorry, for the misleading veneer of "science" thrown over my descriptions.

But if you'd like to say why it wouldn't work in this universe, I can go along with that. Well sorta... I never really got into physics and don't know anything about it, so I have a hard time keeping up.
quote:
And anyway, from what I know of gravity, to make something implode to a point and bend space like this needs a tremendously strong gravitational field, so why doesn't the whole of this pie slice become attracted to this mass and implode into it?

Aw man, you're breaking my brain. I'm too dumb for this stuff. :P

-Erik

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06-04-2003 at 12:42 AM
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ErikH2000
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zex20913 wrote:
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ErikH2000 wrote:
The Eighth is not actually a literal pie. It is pie-shaped.

Is it alright if I still call it "the cherry dimension" then? Just for kicks? :P

No, you may not.

Oh... okay. Go ahead.

-Erik

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06-04-2003 at 12:43 AM
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Thank you for permission. I probably won't use it though...but just in case I do, everyone should know what I'm talking about.

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06-04-2003 at 01:45 AM
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ErikH2000 wrote:

The west and east sides of the pie are continuous, and stepping off one side just places you at the other. In fact, there can be no one border that marks the west or east side. However, the Eighth does have a specific width for any latitude.

The north and the south sides are also continuous, but since one end is small and the other large, the connection is harder to picture. Moving north from the tip of the pie causes you to explode when you are uniformly distributed along the entire southern border. Conversely, moving south from the crust end of the pie causes you to implode to a single point. As you can imagine, one would see some strange sights at the north and south borders.

-Erik


Heh. That's quite an... interesting topology you've created there. Sounds fun. However, it seems to me that there's a little problem. As you walk towards the northmost point, the width of the Eighth gradually becomes smaller. Wouldn't this mean that you can't actually reach the northern border, because at some point the width of the Eighth is to small to contain you?

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06-04-2003 at 09:29 AM
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If it is perfectly possible to walk a tightrope wire, then walking on a tiny narrow piece of land should cause no problems whatsoever. If you are careful and manage to keep your balance, then there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to walk on an infinitely narrow point.

Mind you, it might not feel very comfortable if there is only space all around you...

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06-04-2003 at 12:45 PM
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agaricus5
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Sorry about this... I'm really interested in the "pie slice"... :P

First, how in the world does the "sun" go into a hole in the ground - wouldn't the sun melt everything nearby? On the same note, because the sun should have a large mass and a huge gravitational field which pulls on the slice (unless it's small, in which case the slice may be able to pull it), how does the sun and the slice defy the laws of physics and avoid attracting each other and colliding?

Also, speaking of the point to which one implodes to, where is this fabled singularity - in the air or on the ground? Or, is it actually a point? - Is it sort of an infinitely thin "line" going up perpendicular to the surface?

And anyway, what's on the underside of this "pie slice"? I assume the sun leaves the slice core and comes out on the other side, but if no-one can get to the underside without jumping through the holes the sun moves though (and probably dying), who or what is on the bottom?

Lastly, in terms of relativity...

Which way is up? :D

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06-04-2003 at 05:59 PM
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Watcher wrote:
Heh. That's quite an... interesting topology you've created there. Sounds fun. However, it seems to me that there's a little problem. As you walk towards the northmost point, the width of the Eighth gradually becomes smaller. Wouldn't this mean that you can't actually reach the northern border, because at some point the width of the Eighth is to small to contain you?

Boy, this is great fun. I agree with this practical observation. There is no "nothing" on either side of you (i.e. east-west) as you walk out to the end, but rather a "wrapping world" (think of your favorite game where the levels wrap around). So, as you approach the tip of the pie where the width is the width of your body, then you end up bumping into yourself as your shoulders wrap around to the other side. Nothing strange happens. It's just as if you were to bump shoulders with anyone.

But I think the visual effect toward the tip would be even more interesting. Something like a hall of mirrors. Rather, a "V" of mirrors, where you see things repeating on either side until the angle bends too far away.

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06-04-2003 at 06:51 PM
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agaricus5 wrote:
Lastly, in terms of relativity...

Which way is up? :D
What do you mean? The way people stand is up! :P

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06-04-2003 at 06:53 PM
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agaricus5
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mrimer wrote:
quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
Lastly, in terms of relativity...

Which way is up? :D
What do you mean? The way people stand is up! :P


But...

Which direction is up? (Look at a globe to see what I mean) :D

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06-04-2003 at 07:41 PM
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krammer
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But the Eighth isn't a globe, so "up" is perpendicular to the surface of the pie slice.

And what Mike says makes sense except... you are being exploded, so you would actually explode from the outside in. Eventually you would be the very centre of your body at the tip of the slice while the rest is all in bits, stretched along the crust.
:yikes

I'm curious... do people survive the explosions (or implosions)? Is there a way of being reverted to normal size afterwards?

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06-04-2003 at 08:12 PM
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agaricus5
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krammer wrote:
But the Eighth isn't a globe, so "up" is perpendicular to the surface of the pie slice.


Okay, so, Erik, what's on the "bottom" of the slice then?

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06-04-2003 at 08:19 PM
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agaricus5
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ErikH2000 wrote:
A "year" has 333 days. B.D. stands for "Benedat's Discovery", when he proved the world was a pie--one eighth of a pie, to be exact. This realization prompted a modern age of Constructed Thought. Educated people began calling their world "the Eighth" and acting really snooty at certain parties.

The Wormspeaker, Verse 1.
This is something like a fairy tale, so the exact date of its occurrence (or even if it occurred) is unknown. The tale itself is ancient--pre-B.D.

142 B.D. - Story of Beethro (Beethro enters the dungeon). Three weeks later he resurfaces.

The next day - Smitemasters' meeting where "seeding" is discussed. (ch. 1 of BtD)

143 B.D. - Beethro opens the Roasted Roach Grill. It does okay, but is plenty hard work for Beethro.

144 B.D. - Beethro's tale (end game sequence).

147 B.D. - Voniffa visits Beethro at his house. The seeding complaints come up again, this time directed at Beethro. (ch.2 of BtD)

Hmm. This was actually a good exercise for clearing up a few points in my head. There were several facts that had to be reconciled. Hopefully, this is all consistent with what I've written so far. A lesson for me is that I should probably maintain this thing or I'll end up introducing "continuity" problems.

If anything else should be cleared up, let me know.

-Erik



I still need to know where about in the year this happened to finish off my puzzle:

"147 B.D. - Voniffa visits Beethro at his house. The seeding complaints come up again, this time directed at Beethro. (ch.2 of BtD)"

What day?

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06-04-2003 at 08:26 PM
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ErikH2000
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agaricus5 wrote:
Okay, so, Erik, what's on the "bottom" of the slice then?

Seriously, I can't say what it is. That must be revealed in the story.

-Erik

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06-04-2003 at 09:02 PM
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ErikH2000
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agaricus5 wrote:
"147 B.D. - Voniffa visits Beethro at his house. The seeding complaints come up again, this time directed at Beethro. (ch.2 of BtD)"

What day?

Novender Thirty-Sixth.

Thirty-seven days hath Septender,
Onsuary, Twisuary, and Novender.
All the rest hath... uh.... thirty-seven.
So this rhyme is pointless to remember.

-Erik

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 06-04-2003 at 09:28 PM GMT: Removed unnecessary hint.]

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06-04-2003 at 09:23 PM
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What are the names of all of the months? And bumping shoulders with myself would freak me out for sure.

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06-05-2003 at 01:54 AM
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ErikH2000
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zex20913 wrote:
What are the names of all of the months?

Onsuary
Twisuary
Thrisuary
Quarsuary
Quinsuary
Sensuary
Septender
Octender
Novender

-Erik


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06-05-2003 at 02:59 AM
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Wow, this looks really fun. Nine months with thirty-seven days each... weird. And I just thought of something else that would be quite strange. Given that the sun comes out of a hole in the ground somewhere in the Eighth, one would see eight suns in the sky, just like one would see eight copies of oneself when close to the north pole. Unless the sun is right above the north pole.

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06-05-2003 at 11:10 AM
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ErikH2000
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Watcher wrote:
Given that the sun comes out of a hole in the ground somewhere in the Eighth, one would see eight suns in the sky, just like one would see eight copies of oneself when close to the north pole. Unless the sun is right above the north pole.

Yep, you got the idea. And the sunhole *is* centered on the north pole. It's a big volcano in the middle of the ocean.

-Erik

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06-05-2003 at 04:33 PM
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Alright, I'm just curious, what would one see if one traveled into space and started to orbit the pie slice, Erik?

On a side note, do you mind me speculating like this, Erik?

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06-05-2003 at 05:20 PM
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agaricus5 wrote:
Alright, I'm just curious, what would one see if one traveled into space and started to orbit the pie slice, Erik?

You'd see a flat disc with eight kaleidoscope slices--a repeating pattern of ocean, land masses, and clouds. The sun, intensely bright, would hover about ten miles above the disc's North Pole center. The perimeter of the disc would be a glowing wall rising perpendicular into space. This wall would be brightest at the height of the sun, making a ring of light along the southern border. As you travel up the tube it gets dark and eventually pitch black with the surface far below, smaller than a dot. No stars or other heavenly bodies are visible.
quote:
On a side note, do you mind me speculating like this, Erik?

No, it is fun for me. Also, I don't reply to everything you and other people bring up, because:

1. The answer gives something away that I'd like to show in the story later.
2. I haven't thought about a particular detail long enough to say anything about it. More fun to hear what other people say, and maybe steal their ideas. ;)
3. I'm feeling guilty about spending too much time on the boards when I should be doing work.

-Erik

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06-05-2003 at 06:06 PM
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Oooooo, this is fun! :D

Alright, it's an interesting explanation for what you'd see if you floated really high above the ground, but what if you orbited in a circular orbit perpendicular to the pie surface?

quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
North Pole


North pole? What about the south pole then?

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-05-2003 at 07:15 PM]

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06-05-2003 at 07:10 PM
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ErikH2000
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agaricus5 wrote:
but what if you orbited in a circular orbit perpendicular to the pie surface.

Hmm. Not sure I understand. You can't go around the surface because of the surrounding south wall at the perimeter of the disc. You could travel in a circle with your axis at the North Pole. Then you would see the same terrain repeating.
quote:
North pole? What about the south pole then?

I don't think there is a South Pole, because there is not one southernmost point, but a continuous South Border with all points on it just as southerly as the next. Maybe it is incorrect to call the northernmost point a "pole". Does a North Pole require a South Pole to exist?

-Erik

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06-05-2003 at 07:22 PM
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This is even more fun! ;)

quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
The sun


Wait...

How does the sun propel itself on its daily cycle then, if it is less dense than the atmosphere, because it should float? (I assume [dangerous] that it's made of superheated plasma) :)

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-05-2003 at 08:08 PM]

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06-05-2003 at 07:23 PM
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agaricus5 wrote:
but what if you orbited in a circular orbit perpendicular to the pie surface.

Hmm. Not sure I understand. You can't go around the surface because of the surrounding south wall at the perimeter of the disc. You could travel in a circle with your axis at the North Pole. Then you would see the same terrain repeating.

A wall? So how did anything ever manage to land on this "pie slice" in the first place then - it can't have just "appeared" from nowhere, unless, that is, if somehow an absolutely huge amount of energy managed to turn itself into matter as it passed within the "edge" of the "pie". :)

quote:

quote:
North pole? What about the south pole then?

I don't think there is a South Pole, because there is not one southernmost point, but a continuous South Border with all points on it just as southerly as the next. Maybe it is incorrect to call the northernmost point a "pole". Does a North Pole require a South Pole to exist?

-Erik


I assumed that you meant "magnetic" north pole or something originally based on that concept.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-05-2003 at 07:59 PM GMT: Spelling Error]

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06-05-2003 at 07:37 PM
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It sounds like you have a "center pole" instead of a North pole, and a southern border, instead of a south pole, and the whole thing seems cylindrical. Perhaps the sun "rise & set" is kind of a twist on the helio/geocentric debates. It appears that the sun is the thing that moves, but in reality, the land is fluctuating around the sun. While this might provide odd feelings for the inhabitants, it probably wouldn't as the speed up and slow down would be gradual.

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06-05-2003 at 09:41 PM
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zex20913 wrote:
It sounds like you have a "center pole" instead of a North pole, and a southern border, instead of a south pole, and the whole thing seems cylindrical. Perhaps the sun "rise & set" is kind of a twist on the helio/geocentric debates. It appears that the sun is the thing that moves, but in reality, the land is fluctuating around the sun. While this might provide odd feelings for the inhabitants, it probably wouldn't as the speed up and slow down would be gradual.


We could find out...

Erik, how long does it take for the sun to rise and set fully?

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-05-2003 at 09:56 PM]

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06-05-2003 at 09:55 PM
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agaricus5 wrote:
Erik, how long does it take for the sun to rise and set fully?


It pops right up there in a fingersnap, leaving the nearby ocean boiling for a moment from the brief exposure. The sun hangs around for half a day, then plummets back into the volcano as fast as it came. No sunsets or sunrises for the Eighthers.

-Erik

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06-05-2003 at 10:14 PM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
the Eighthers.

Dang, I would have guessed they were Eighthlings.


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06-05-2003 at 10:16 PM
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zex20913 wrote:
It appears that the sun is the thing that moves, but in reality, the land is fluctuating around the sun. While this might provide odd feelings for the inhabitants, it probably wouldn't as the speed up and slow down would be gradual.

Whoa, I didn't think of that. Kind of a scary thought.

-Erik

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