Red-XIII
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First of all is anybody had an idea similar to mine and posted it already I must apologize but I can't read all the topics in this amazing page.
Anyway the black snake is a monster with this feature:
1) He moves like a red snake with the brain, this means no matter what he will chase you
2) When he goes to a dead end the head and the tail of the snake switch, so he can't be killed like this.
3) He can be killed if he receive at least one hit in every part of his body
4) He can eat other monsters but he doesn't grow; can't go on water and can wal on arrows. Bombs can kill him only if the range is large as necessary. If I forgot something just ask.
It's just an idea that came when I was in the shower.

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skell
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Red-XIII wrote:
3) He can be killed if he receive at least one hit in every part of his body

I am not big fancy of the other points, but I very much like this one!

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Red-XIII
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skell wrote:

Red-XIII wrote:
3) He can be killed if he receive at least one hit in every part of his body

I am not big fancy of the other points, but I very much like this one!

I'm glad you like it Do you have any idea of how you would create the other features or modify them? I accept every advice

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Neather2
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Red-XIII wrote:
[..]
2) When he goes to a dead end the head and the tail of the snake switch, so he can't be killed like this.
[..]

Wow, I love this one! Might be a bit too surreal to match DROD standards and dynamics, though.

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Red-XIII
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Neather2 wrote:

Red-XIII wrote:
[..]
2) When he goes to a dead end the head and the tail of the snake switch, so he can't be killed like this.
[..]

Wow, I love this one! Might be a bit too surreal to match DROD standards and dynamics, though.

It's totally surreal As I said every idea can be improved by everyone's advice, I never expected people liked my idea

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Neather2
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The switch idea is really neat IMHO, I would like to see it done.

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bwross
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How about giving it two heads to make it less surreal? The rear head wouldn't have any detail (looking like a blob) so you could tell them apart. And with two heads already, why not have the "hit every part of its body" replaced with cutting? Head-tail hits would do nothing (hits one off them would allow for clean removal, so it's a bit like an adder and a rattler, but still very different). This would complete the hit location set for serpents with no duplication.

Personally, I'm not fond of monsters that are auto-brained. Puzzle potential would almost certainly be larger if this serpent is normally unbrained... the ability to drive from behind a serpent into a dead end and have it "bounce" has some potential. This is different than the other monsters that can be pushed around to do stuff.

Red-XIII
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bwross wrote:
How about giving it two heads to make it less surreal? The rear head wouldn't have any detail (looking like a blob) so you could tell them apart. And with two heads already, why not have the "hit every part of its body" replaced with cutting? Head-tail hits would do nothing (hits one off them would allow for clean removal, so it's a bit like an adder and a rattler, but still very different). This would complete the hit location set for serpents with no duplication.

Personally, I'm not fond of monsters that are auto-brained. Puzzle potential would almost certainly be larger if this serpent is normally unbrained... the ability to drive from behind a serpent into a dead end and have it "bounce" has some potential. This is different than the other monsters that can be pushed around to do stuff.

On second thought it's better that it's unbrained, yes you're right. About the cutting which part you think should be cutted? I mean if the snake is long 10 and you cut on square 7 it will get shorter from the tail. But what if you cut him exactly in the half? Which part should have the priority?

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bwross
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No priority... two heads, so cutting it in the middle gets you two serpents. Well, unless one of the serpents would be nothing but heads, because those aren't allowed by standard serpent rules (but in this case, it would mean the serpent would need to be at least three long).

hyperme
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bwross wrote:
No priority... two heads, so cutting it in the middle gets you two serpents. Well, unless one of the serpents would be nothing but heads, because those aren't allowed by standard serpent rules (but in this case, it would mean the serpent would need to be at least three long).

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that Adders were originally like this or something, but it didn't work very well. Maybe I'm remembering fake words. However, it does sound a bit crowd inducing.

Anyhow, I think the part about needed to hit all the Serpent's body parts to kill it is pretty interesting. If it works like that, the Serpent doesn't shrink when you 'damage' it, and the entire thing dies when you hit the last piece. This to lead to some interesting puzzles based around working out the best order to strike parts of immobile Magic Black Snake or which place you want to be when it dies.

Also, how would it react to hot tiles?

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Red-XIII
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hyperme wrote:

bwross wrote:
No priority... two heads, so cutting it in the middle gets you two serpents. Well, unless one of the serpents would be nothing but heads, because those aren't allowed by standard serpent rules (but in this case, it would mean the serpent would need to be at least three long).

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that Adders were originally like this or something, but it didn't work very well. Maybe I'm remembering fake words. However, it does sound a bit crowd inducing.


Also, how would it react to hot tiles?

If someone already had a similar idea I already apologized but I didn't read all the topics. About the cutting I think it won't work, because if it can't be killed by cutting the head or the tail but only cutting in his body then at the end only head and tail will remain and it can't be killed, so personally I prefer the hitting every part of his body. About the hot tile, personally I prefer that it has no effect, what do you think about it?

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Ezlo
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Hmmm... what if hot tiles were able to damage portions of the snake if they stayed on it for too long, but they grew back after a few turns of movement again. This would give swordless characters a way to kill it and give it extra puzzle potential where you have to try and manipulate the snake to cover all the hot tiles at once so it can die.

Just my two cents.

bwross
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Note that my suggestion was that cutting might make sense if the serpent is treated as having two heads and no tail. So when you cut it down to size two, it's nothing but head... which as I point out above, isn't valid and so it goes poof. That's why I said it must be at least three long... it needs a body segment between heads.


hyperme wrote:

This to lead to some interesting puzzles based around working out the best order to strike parts of immobile Magic Black Snake or which place you want to be when it dies.

The only way this serpent is ever immobile is if you can get both ends in a dead end. Which is quite tricky to do, and if you have done it, and still have access to the body parts you need to hit, I can't see it being particularly tricky. It's not like cutting where things will change, the serpent's just sitting there, there's no need to think about the best order, just pick the piece you want to hit last and hit the rest in any order.

Red-XIII
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The only way this serpent is ever immobile is if you can get both ends in a dead end. Which is quite tricky to do, and if you have done it, and still have access to the body parts you need to hit, I can't see it being particularly tricky. It's not like cutting where things will change, the serpent's just sitting there, there's no need to think about the best order, just pick the piece you want to hit last and hit the rest in any order.
Mhh I didn't consider this opportunity but it looks cool. But I still didn't understood very well your dinamic to kill kim, after he's long 3 squares what will happen?

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
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Red-XIII
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Ezlo wrote:
Hmmm... what if hot tiles were able to damage portions of the snake if they stayed on it for too long, but they grew back after a few turns of movement again. This would give swordless characters a way to kill it and give it extra puzzle potential where you have to try and manipulate the snake to cover all the hot tiles at once so it can die.

Just my two cents.

If the main way to kill him is hitting every part of his body your idea is nice! If we consider killing him by cutting what the hot tile should do? Is your idea vaild for this way too?

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
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hyperme
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bwross wrote:

hyperme wrote:

This to lead to some interesting puzzles based around working out the best order to strike parts of immobile Magic Black Snake or which place you want to be when it dies.

The only way this serpent is ever immobile is if you can get both ends in a dead end. Which is quite tricky to do, and if you have done it, and still have access to the body parts you need to hit, I can't see it being particularly tricky. It's not like cutting where things will change, the serpent's just sitting there, there's no need to think about the best order, just pick the piece you want to hit last and hit the rest in any order.

I was thinking of situations where the Snake starts off immobile as it's been placed that way by the Architect. Then, if various monsters and other such threats are beyond Mr. Snake, where you are when the whole thing dies is important.

The main thing is 'snake what splits when you cut it' has been suggested many times, while 'snake what needs to be hit on every segment' has not. However, maybe dropping a bridge from under it could split it, or closing a door on a damaged section?

Also, weird idea: If this Snake is temporally hurt by hot tiles, maybe it could be hurt in the same way by Aumtlich beams.

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Red-XIII
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I was thinking of situations where the Snake starts off immobile as it's been placed that way by the Architect. Then, if various monsters and other such threats are beyond Mr. Snake, where you are when the whole thing dies is important.

The main thing is 'snake what splits when you cut it' has been suggested many times, while 'snake what needs to be hit on every segment' has not. However, maybe dropping a bridge from under it could split it, or closing a door on a damaged section?

Also, weird idea: If this Snake is temporally hurt by hot tiles, maybe it could be hurt in the same way by Aumtlich beams.
Yes about bridges, doors and beams I agree with you. About the chose of its way to kill it each of us as a different opinion because each method is good to create interesting puzzle. So the question is which choice brings more interesting puzzle? And what if we could find a method that involves both methods? I have to think...

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
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bwross
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Red-XIII wrote:
Mhh I didn't consider this opportunity but it looks cool. But I still didn't understood very well your dinamic to kill kim, after he's long 3 squares what will happen?

Well, a three long two headed snake is: head-body-head. Cut in the middle and it's obviously gone. Although that's not particularly relevant to the part you quoted, which is about a hit everywhere snake.

hyperme wrote:
I was thinking of situations where the Snake starts off immobile as it's been placed that way by the Architect. Then, if various monsters and other such threats are beyond Mr. Snake, where you are when the whole thing dies is important.

I wasn't questioning that where you stand on the final cut would be important (note that I said that that was a decision). I was questioning the other part of your comment about the order of the cuts. It's not important... take them when and where you can, and only plan the last one (although there is some concern about parts becoming inaccessible, a snake that can back out of a dead end has a lot less concern in that area than an inaccessible rattleserpent rattle).

Order of hits isn't really a puzzle element unless it somehow changes things... and this hit-everywhere type serpent ignores all but the last. If hits made it reverse or change direction, then there would be considerations about when to hit it. If where you hit it determined the direction, then where would matter. Not that any of that would apply if the serpent is immobile.

For example, consider a two headed serpent which has weak spots on the heads. Hit one of those, and the corresponding head gets chopped off, making the other one the active head. This means that cutting one end reverses the serpent and the other doesn't. That's a difference in where you hit the serpent... marking a segment as hit and having the serpent continue on isn't.

hyperme wrote:
The main thing is 'snake what splits when you cut it' has been suggested many times, while 'snake what needs to be hit on every segment' has not. However, maybe dropping a bridge from under it could split it, or closing a door on a damaged section?

I never said that cutting was a new idea. I brought it up only because I figured that if you talk about giving a serpent has two heads, the possibility of cutting it in two pretty much needs to be brought up. Doing it only with dungeon features is interesting.

Red-XIII
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I thought a little and I came with this, mabye it's a little forced but I'd like to know what you think about it.
The snake has 2 heads, one black, the other (the tail) is white. When the black head is in charge to kill him you must hit every part of his body, when the white is in charge you can cut him. Every switch heal him, so if you hit 7/10 of his body but then he switch and switch again he's healed. Hope you understood my weird mind

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infoleather
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Snake, unless you what will be, but head snake rules, because these standards are not allowed.

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Red-XIII
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infoleather wrote:
Snake, unless you what will be, but head snake rules, because these standards are not allowed.

It's not that it's not allowed, it's a possible idea for the future drod; there are already 3 snakes and each of them remain stuck (or die) in a dead end so I thought that a snake with some propriety might be interesting.

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There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
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Tahnan
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Red-XIII wrote:

infoleather wrote:
Snake, unless you what will be, but head snake rules, because these standards are not allowed.

It's not that it's not allowed, it's a possible idea for the future drod; there are already 3 snakes and each of them remain stuck (or die) in a dead end so I thought that a snake with some propriety might be interesting.

Red, "infoleather" is a spambot that's pulling random words out of the thread in order to look like it's somehow on-topic.

Red-XIII
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Red, "infoleather" is a spambot that's pulling random words out of the thread in order to look like it's somehow on-topic.
You know, actually I haven't thought about that xD but even in the case he was serious he should read well the topic information.
And right now while writing an idea came in my mind; how do you see a door that opens only when all the snakes in a room are dead?

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west.logan
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Too true. Words I live by daily...

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