×People who play with alpha blending turned off(aka they see no light effects) will probably hate you for not placing walls on edges of "Burning Sands" level.

room-specific comments (Burning Sands level):

Entrance: "Ha, that's easy, I just clear that-- what the heck how do I destroy tar blob completely" was my first impression of this. I went in editor and played around with that tar shape, and eventually managed to make double-cut with decoys. When I finished the room, I had 2 trapdoors not dropped and 2 unused decoys(I'm pretty sure it's possible to save more decoys).

1W: After some unsuccessful attempts, managed to find a way to fight mud on hot tiles for infinite amount of spawns(8 spawns seems to be enough to enforce this solution). It also would be nice to be able to go through the room without conquering it first(and even after conquering it, it's still painful - speed potion doesn't help much; I just had to avoid this room when I walked across the level, searching the next easiest room to tackle)

1S 1W: Probably the easiest one(or I was lucky). No trapdoors to spare in my solution.

1N: I was going to blame you for red sister gates(because the first working solution I found involved dropping all trapdoors), but then found neat solution which involved leaving exactly one trapdoor not dropped. Good room.

1N 1E: Also not too hard - the trickiest part is killing first two snakes. After that, I just have to be careful and not burn the roach accidentally.

1E: Clever. For a while, I wondered how do I kill *five* golems in one of 2x3-tiles-non-pressure-plate areas. Figured it out eventually.

1N 1W: After completing it... I don't think it really needs any more checkpoints. Oh, and I didn't need to plan it on paper at all It turned out to be simplier than 1S. But still very enjoyable. No complaints about this room.

1S: When I solved this, I had grand total of two trapdoors undropped(at 20,19 and 19,7). Man, this room is *insane*. It's really hard even now. If you limit the amount of times I can go through tunnels even more, it'll probably be too difficult to be fun. It works very well as it is now - took me ages and lots of planning and failed attempts to do it.


Oh, and I quickly looked through the whole hold in the editor... If you don't know where to place checkpoints in Ruins 2N 1W, it doesn't mean you shouldn't place them anywhere in the room.(that room looks like *pain* to play w/o checkpoints anywhere)

EDIT: Ruins 2N 1W also has trivial unintended solution. I pretty much just kill everything and exit(see attached archive).

Also, attached archive contains demo for unintended solution to Ruins: Entrance(I think I know what you were actually aiming for there, and if I'm right... you, sir, are evil) and Ruins: 1W(I simply blow up all tarstuff mothers, stab rock giants and use their remains to hold pressure plates)

Also, attached archive contains demo for 3N 1E: I'm not really sure whether my solution is intended or not

(EDIT: attachment removed since architect got it)

×demos:
Ruins 3N 1E - fairly sure I'm still not doing what you intended, as changes between my old demo and this one are minimal.

Ruins: Entrance: this time, solution wasn't trivial. However, I'm wondering whether it's fully intended. Why passage at 1,1-14,1? Why orbs at 26,3; 17,8; 14,28; 34,22? Just red herrings?

Ruins: 1N 3W - .zip contains two demos for this room of a bit different solutions. I didn't need to get adder through passage-with-decoy in either of those solutions, which makes me wonder whether they are intended. Neither of them are trivial, though.

Burning Sands: Entrance: Since you wondered how I saved two trapdoors, I've included demo for this room in .zip as well.

And, some comments:

I haven't tried to replay Ruins 1W yet, but I'll note that, if I blow up bomb at 27,20, I can light the fuse by stepping at 27,19 instead of 29,30. Not sure it helps much, but still.

Scripting in Ruins 2W looks OK for me, by the way. I think the only way player could "cheat" there a bit is by stabbing monster while on land and then immediately moving on water and stabbing another one(since you have "wait 1" command there - I'm not sure if it's actually needed here), but that doesn't help much. Oh, and it's hard to see on minimap whether that room is required or not. Some people complained about such rooms(about "Lava Gates" level in Complex Complex, for example, where it's pretty much impossible to see), so maybe you might want to fix that(by carving some floor instead of wall in any part of the room or by changing bridge with floor).

The hard-to-see-whether-room-is-required applies to 3N 1W, too. That room was kinda quick, though, so I didn't really mind it there.

I've just looked at Ruins 1E in editor and noticed that there's secret wall at 6,5-36,5. Any reason why? As for the room itself, it wasn't too hard, but still rather fun.

2N was suprisingly tricky for what it looked like. I also like that it's easy to see when I've failed due to pressure plate toggling the lights. Nicely done.

2N 2W is another nice room, it had me stumped until I noticed that The planning-where-to-put-next-decoy bit wasn't trivial either.

×Use the southernmost mimic potion as a wall to stop the adder from getting stuck in the entrance area.

×Attached .zip has demos for Ruins 1N 1W(definetily not what you intended - I just kill everything and exit) and Heatstroke 2S 2E(either it's really that easy or I did something unintended) EDIT: attachment removed

I have to do Ruins Entrance the way you intend now. And man, that is insane room(I knew the seep trick needed to complete this, but it still was hard). With that said, you're giving me one goblin(or one seep) to spare. Due to that, I don't have to strike central orb while standing at 20,17(I assume the lack of light there is a hint?). Oh, and pressure plates under adders serve no purpose whatsoever. It also seems kinda odd that I have to solve such a hard room before being able to get to (slightly easier) 1E.

My solution for 3N 1W is different after your changes there. Previously, I had to place clone at 18,24. This way, I was able to get to mud mother one move ahead of old timer(and one move away from your new timer - if it's possible to kill mud mother before she spawns even if you place clone at 18,24 - that's insane. I thought I've tried every possible combination, but still one move away). With that said, my new solution involves placing clone at 13,6(or somewhere near that). This way, I'm able to outrun new timer by two turns. Intended?

I've played 2W, and man, I didn't expect adder-eating-skippers(or skipper nests) to count as "monster-stabbed event". I think guard's speech should be "Don't ask me why, but if any skippers or nests are killed or eaten while you are standing by the water, I'll be forced to stop you". I'm not sure my solution is 100% intended(the intend way is to surround all skipper nests with platforms so they have nowhere to spawn waterskippers, right?), but far from trivial, either - adder just eats all three nests in time, so none of them has any chance to spawn skippers.

Ruins 1N took me a while to solve. Tricky. I'm wondering why tunnels to the east/west of central area are there, though.

Heatstroke Entrance is indeed the hardest room of this level, it took me a while to solve.

1S was slightly easier.

2S also took me a while(not as much as Entrance though).

2S 1E is the third(and last) room on this level which took me a while. Managed it eventually.

1S 2E is a nice room, though slightly easier than previous ones(except 2S 2E, which is ridiculously easy).


Your change to Burning Sands 1S is cool, by the way, though it doesn't really change optimization strategy - ones who want good score will aim for minimizing amount of times they use tunnels, anyway.

×It sounds like you are overlooking one of the places a clone could be placed.

×Since seep will die on the half turn if you open the door.

×My solution for Ruins 1N 1W is exactly the same as what I used to do there. Well, maybe a few moves here and there are different. You'll have to fix it some more I'm afraid.

Ruins: 3N 1E is still broken, I'm afraid.

I've replayed Ruins: Entrance after your latest change... I hope I'm missing something simplier, because what I had to do now to succeed is even more difficult.

I've played new Heatstroke 2S 2E, and I like it. Definitely trickier than previous 2S 2E(and than 1S 2E, by the way). But where are checkpoints? Also, it's a little weird that this room has no conquer token, while other ones on the same level do.

My solution for Ruins: 3N 1W now involves placing clone at 13,10(or any other square-where-mud-baby-will-spawn). :P I'm not sure this is what you intended... and I think I'm starting to suspect what you really intended here. EDIT: ha, managed it the way I believe you intended. I placed clone... somewhere where I didn't think of placing it before. Sneaky.

Also, I've solved Ruins 2N 1E. Tricky, tricky room, on par with Burning Sands 1S. Works well as secret room. (may I ask that you don't move it anywhere, please, so you don't kill my demo? )

×One only requires 4 seep, but requires that you use a goblin to press all of the plates.

×The one I intended requires that you hit the orb with your body and use your sword to block seep from getting onto the doors. Then use a goblin to lock the seep in the position you described.

×3N took me long to figure out, but in the end, it turned out to have a very clear and pretty clever solution, not relying on any complicated slayer tricks. I liked it.

2N 1W took some planning. Eventually, I got roach and citizen to "cooperate". Citizen hit the eastern pressure plate, roach hit the western one.


I've noticed that you say something regarding reordering rooms in the first post. I'd say that as a whole, the hold doesn't need lots of room reordering. All levels have some not-so-tricky stuff and some truly devious stuff, and it's allright: those who can't solve most of rooms in the first level wouldn't be able to make lots of progress in this hold even if it was 100% nonlinear. There're two minor changes you could make, though:

1. Make "Ruins: 1E" accessible without having to solve "Ruins: Entrance" first. Entrance is much, much harder than 1E.
2. Mark "Burning Sands: 1S" secret. IMO, it's the most devious room on this level, harder than most of rooms you have in this hold. I personally found it almost as hard as Ruins 2N 1E(the latter is more forgiving, even: the trapdoor area is big enough so there's some space for making small mistakes).