Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Okay, let's see how this idea fares. This monster doesn't move, and can be of any length. It must be attached to a wall on one end. It is fatal to Beethro only at the tip/head (spikes or a mouth).

Both the tip of the tentacle and the base, where it attaches to the wall, can be affected by Beethro's sword. So he can either make his way to the base of the tentacle (if possible), or kill it one square at a time, making his way towards the base. When the base is destroyed the entire tentacle disappears.

There are several modifications that could be made to this. Change what part of it is fatal to Beethro (like the rest of the body -- poisonous skin or lots of spikes -- or not at all). Perhaps the tip grows by one square (using the same rules as snake movement) every 30 turns. If it grows it probably should be fatal to touch at least the tip.

It could also be thought of as plant growth, say a poisonous vine, and then even have one vine connect two walls so when Beethro destroys one base he has to follow it back to the other wall and destroy it there too. If they grow then they might seek out walls (since this gives them some protection from instant kills) instead of Beethro. If they are not fatal at all, then Beethro doesn't have to kill them to leave a room.

Reasons why it would not add anything to the game: if it is not fatal to Beethro, it is basically just a wall that can be opened either at one end, or like a series of breakable walls, although a series that has to be started at one end. But that could be accomplished some other way.

I can't think of anything else right now, so criticism may hereby commence!

Game on,

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zex20913
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I think there's something like this in the Sourceforge stuff called "The Vine" or something. It's not fatal, but it does grow. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure if I like the concept...a dieable wall pretty much...I make no sense. It's nearly midnight, and I came back from a fun banquet thing where my shoes killed me.

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Sokko
Level: Smiter

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I think that idea sounds really cool. Like, it could seek out walls at first, and once it's connected to at least two walls, it goes for Beethro. Though I think growing once every 30 turns makes it a bit too easy; once every 2 turns would be more like it. Other than that, it's generally a great idea. Precise rules, in case someone actually likes it other than me and you:

1. No diagonal movement, like a snake.

2. At least one part of the tentacle must be attached to a wall.

3. The free end of the tentacle (the tip) is deadly to Beethro, like a snake head. The rest of the tentacle is not harmful, like a snake body.

4. IF all available ends of a tentacle are connected to walls, then a new tentacle tip will form and grow out from the place on the tentacle that is closest to Beethro.

5. The tentacle grows one space in the direction of its target every 2 turns.

6. IF the tentacle is connected to only one wall, the tip will head for the nearest wall and attach to it. Having no free ends left, the tentacle will then grow another as described in Rule #4.

7. IF the tentacle is already connected to two or more walls, then the tip will grow towards Beethro, exhibiting the same behavior as a snake, in that it will move in the general direction of Beethro, and will turn if it encounters a wall. However, it is not affected by the same alternating "mindsets" of movement as a snake.

8. IF the tip somehow grows itself into a dead end, as snakes can do if you trap them, then it will attach to one of the walls of the dead end and will, according to Rule #4, grow a new tip.

9. IF Beethro strikes the tip with his Very Big Sword, then it will be destroyed in a green splatter and a new tip will form at the place where it was cut off. Thus, if Beethro is patient, he can carve away a tentacle piece by piece until he reaches the base, assuming there is only one base, otherwise he's in trouble.

10. IF Beethro strikes the base of a tentacle where it attaches to the wall, then it and all sections of tentacle up until the first branch will be destroyed. If he destroys the only base, the entire tentacle will be destroyed in a large green splatter.

11. THUS, if there is more than one base, then Beethro has no choice but to destroy the tentacle by striking the bases. This is because, if Beethro were to keep smashing the tip, then he would eventually come back to where it grew out from, which is a place between two tentacles. Since this middle bit cannot form a free end, the tip will disappear, and a new tip will grow out as soon as he moves away.

12. IF the tip, in trying to grow, is blocked by Beethro's sword, it will turn to move around it as if it were a wall. Since the tentacle grows only once every two turns, this technique could be used to steer a tentacle in a desired direction.

13. IF there are two or more tentacles in a room (heaven forbid), and the tip of one comes in contact with any part of the other, they will merge together. A tentacle cannot merge into itself; it will merely turn away.

14. A tentacle will grow around other dungeon monsters as if they were walls. If a tentacle is blocked by a trio of monsters, it will simply wait until one of them moves away.

15. IF a tentacle is lured through a patch of tar, and the tar grows, then it will grow over the tentacle and destroy it. If the tip was already free of the tar, it and any preceding segments will also be destroyed.

16. Like snakes, a tentacle will not grow over force arrows or trapdoors; if cornered with a trio of such objects, or pits, it will have no choice but to sit and wait until Beethro destroys a base somewhere.

17. Tentacles are not affected at all by Brains, because they're a plant.

I think I've got everything. Whew! I don't see how anyone could NOT like that.

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Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Wow, that's a pretty impressive set of rules there. Let me ask a question or two to clarify...

I didn't have the tentacle grow very quickly because I wondered what would happen if it grew while Beethro was hacking it down step by step from the tip. If it veers away from Beethro every two turns it can be pretty annoying, not to mention hard to predict (you don't want to turn your sword away for a second just to die). Thus, the growth rate would need to be stunted based on whether or not it just lost part of its body. Finally, I chose every 30 turns because of the way that the tar mothers and roach queens work...Erik et al. may be reluctant to add something that respawns on a different schedule. Combining what I just said, perhaps it grows one square a turn, just like a snake moves one square a turn, but if its tip is destroyed then that is considered to be its "turn" so that Beethro can still destroy it. Not sure if this would be too counter to what the general monster scripting is.

Obviously having two ends attached to a wall is a stronger position for the tentacle. But will it completely ignore Beethro if he is right there and it only has one end attached? Surely there would be some desire for it to kill Beethro ASAP.

I definitely like what you've added to the monster, now let's flesh it out so other people will like it too, and it doesn't seem too hard to program.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Sokko wrote:
I think I've got everything. Whew! I don't see how anyone could NOT like that.

It's really interesting, but I know someone who might not approve...

It would probably be Clayton.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

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Resident Medic/Mycologist

Sokko
Level: Smiter

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Alright, possible answers:

If you kill the tip, it will reset the counter, so it will not grow anywhere so long as you keep hacking at the tip every turn. You could conceivably take a turn off and turn your sword elsewhere to get a stray roach or something, and, supposing the tentacle didn't grow anywhere inconvenient while you were swinging your sword back to face it, you could go back to whacking it. I am quite stressing the fact that it grows every other turn; if it grew every turn, it would be like a snake with several super-powers, and thus too hard. Every three turns, it would be easy as pie for Beethro to kill it without ever being in danger of attack. One is too hard, three is too slow, two is juuuuust right.

OK, add a couple rules here. If the tentacle only has one end attached AND it is right next to Beethro AND it will grow on the next turn, then yes it will go for Beethro. However, this would make no difference if Beethro were to swing his sword and kill the tip, thus thwarting its plans according to the order of code execution. So in short, if Beethro's death is inevitable, the tentacle will strike. Diagram:

WW are walls
TT is tentacle
* is tentacle tip
R is a roach
B is Beethro, lines are his sword

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
W                           W
WTTTTTTTTT                  W
W        T                  W
W        T                  W
W        TTTTT*B  R         W
W             /             W
W                           W
W                           W
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

As you can see, the tentacle has been trying to reach the opposite wall, it may have been blocked by other creatures or Beethro's sword in its path. Notice that Beethro's sword is in a position to kill the tip, and we will assume that the tip will move on the next turn.
If Beethro turns his sword towards the tip, and destroys it, then the thought of killing him has never entered the tentacle's mind. When he killed it, it was still thinking about getting to the wall.
If Beethro forgets that it is the tentacle's turn to grow, and instead turns his sword the other way to deal with the roach, then the tentacle will seize the opportunity and kill him.

Remember that the tentacle treats Beethro's sword as any other wall. Also, consider this point: After a tentacle has latched onto two places, it will go for Beethro, going around walls to get to him. This means that the only time a tentacle will have more than two bases is if Beethro traps it in a dead end, thus forcing it to form a new base and grow a new tip elsewhere. (unless none of the three obstacles used are walls, in which case the tentacle tip will wait patiently until one of them is removed, which could be never if the obstacles are pits)

Also, I should say that they don't latch onto doors, because they know them to be unstable and not safe for forming bases.

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 05-06-2003 at 08:43 PM GMT: Seeing if I can fix the unbounded thing.]

[Edited by Sokko on 05-08-2003 at 08:27 PM GMT: Backslash missing]

[Edited by Sokko on 05-08-2003 at 08:28 PM GMT: Backslash still not working, trying a forward slash]

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Sokko
Level: Smiter

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HELP! Why is my previous post unbounded? I can't even edit it; it goes off the edge of the page!

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ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Sokko wrote:
HELP! Why is my previous post unbounded? I can't even edit it; it goes off the edge of the page!

I used my admin powers and edited your message. You just needed to enclose your room representation with a "{/code}" tag. You had the "{/code}" tag further down, causing text after the room to be inside of the block.

-Erik

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Sokko
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I can't put in the backslash character that I was using for his sword; it just creates a backspace. Trying with a forward slash...

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Sokko
Level: Smiter

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Alright, a forward slash worked. Why does a backslash create a backspace?

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Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Sokko wrote:
Alright, a forward slash worked. Why does a backslash create a backspace?

It actually doesn't - a backslash is a special character that 'escapes' the next character, and escaping a space results in a space. Try using two backslashes in a row to get one: \\


[Edited by Schik on 05-08-2003 at 08:31 PM]

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