mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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File: Architectural Market.hold (9.3 KB)
Downloaded 56 times.
License: Public Domain

I had a couple of puzzles(7 8, to be exact) sitting on my hard drive for no apparent reason, so I've copied them all into one hold and uploaded it here. Enjoy!

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-27-2011 03:56 AM]

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
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Is it 3N1E just...

If it isn't, I assume your intended solution is...

However...

If you want, I suggest to:



I'm sorry if I got a wrong idea of the room and if IT REALLY WAS your solution
-Neather2

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

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[Last edited by Neather2 at 07-06-2011 07:09 PM]

da rogu3
Level: Smiter

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Is 3N1E supposed to be so simple?

2N1W is a nice room, reminds me of a room in Artful Architecture

1N1E and 2N1E all *look* logically impossible so there's obviously some sneaky lynchpins I'm missing.

I think I know what needs to be done in 3N1W, but it's difficult trying to pull it off.

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 07-06-2011 07:26 PM]

Neather2
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Some more things:

1N1E is possible for me. Anyhow, I think the solution may be a bit too boring. I'm sorry

1N1W is a really nice puzzle idea. I got the intended solution, but I'm 20-30 moves late and I don't know if it is solvable. Not too much space.

2N1Wis a simple and enjoyable room. Nothing to say.

No idea on how to solve 2N1E and even if I didn't, I bet 3N1W is doable (still a boring manipulating solution)

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

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[Last edited by Neather2 at 07-06-2011 07:21 PM]

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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Thank you both, I screwed up with 3N 1E. Should be impossible to break it now.

@Neather2 -> I agree that 1N 1E might be a bit tedious. I spent too long on trying to make that idea work, though, so I've decided to include that puzzle anyway.

3N 1W, given the golem, is fine. It *was* tedious without golem and only with four guards, though. With correctly placed golem, it's not too bad.

And 1N 1W is possible. You're probably doing it wrong if you're "20-30 moves too late". Ask if you need more hints.

@da rogu3 -> Actually I thought it would be kinda obvious what to do in 1N 1E. 2N 1E is pretty tricky indeed.

I'm glad you liked 2N 1W

And I said above, 3N 1W is *not* as painful as it looks, given the golem.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-07-2011 05:36 AM]

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
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Well, I think I really need to ask help for the slayer and tar puzzle. Here's what I thought:






Thanks for your help

Edit: I know it is some whisp manipulating trick. I tried them in JTRH, LoL. However, I can't do them in that little space without making the slayer move at least *1* tile away.

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

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[Last edited by Neather2 at 07-07-2011 05:58 AM]

mxvladi
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Rank Points: 2505
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Neather2 wrote:
Edit: I know it is some whisp manipulating trick. I tried them in JTRH, LoL.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-07-2011 07:54 AM]

da rogu3
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Actually I thought it would be kinda obvious what to do in 1N 1E.

Not for me

Solved the new 3N1W. It's nice how you have the get the seep movement order right. Activated the plate after killing the brains, btw.

Haven't fully solved 2N1E yet but I've just realised how to do it. Ingenious solution.

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 07-07-2011 03:53 PM]

mxvladi
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da rogu3 wrote:

Actually I thought it would be kinda obvious what to do in 1N 1E.

Not for me

Assuming this is hint request...

Solved the new 3N1E. It's nice how you have the get the seep movement order right. Activated the plate after killing the brains, btw.

Nice. I'm thinking about making it a tiny bit trickier, though.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-07-2011 06:05 PM]

da rogu3
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Thanks, don't think I would have ever figured that out. But I agree with Neather2, the room seems a bit too fiddly to get right.

And I solved 2N1E, very fun and tricky room.

Oh and are you planning to upload this to the holds board as a 1 level hold? If so, I don't think you should have the entrance as a bottleneck, since it requires pretty good slayer knowledge.

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
IP: Logged

da rogu3 wrote:
But I agree with Neather2, the room seems a bit too fiddly to get right.

I kinda agree with you two here; but, sadly, I don't see any way to make it more friendly without making it slightly easier. I could make it unrequired, though. But then I need another required room to take its place

And I solved 2N1E, very fun and tricky room.

Nice So you have 1N 1W and 3N 1W left, then?

Oh and are you planning to upload this to the holds board as a 1 level hold?

Yup

If so, I don't think you should have the entrance as a bottleneck, since it requires pretty good slayer knowledge.

Well, that's kinda sad you call it a bottleneck - I made entrance specifically for purpose of being the first-room-in-the-hold(thus, slightly easier than others)... I failed, I guess.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-07-2011 06:48 PM]

Neather2
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 406
Registered: 07-18-2006
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If I were you, I would turn one of your guards into a mimic. This should make the room harder (well, maybe not really) and more enjoyable because it requires a bit of less manipulation with those guards and a bit of more manipulation with Beethro. Just a suggestion, though.
Also, I don't think publishing the hold like it is now is a problem. People just enjoy random puzzles. Personally, I love short and medium-difficult holds without any story for a nice afternoon. Otherwise, I'd prefer long holds with cutscenes and a bit of story for a long gameplay when I'm full of time and want to improve my smiting skills.

-Neather2

____________________________
Nothing to say. I just play the game. And you, sir, should play it too.

Conspiracy, my new hold, has just been released.

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[Last edited by Neather2 at 07-07-2011 07:15 PM]

da rogu3
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 491
Registered: 04-06-2011
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Okay maybe it's not so much a bottleneck, but for me it isn't that easy at all. (although people more familiar with slayer behaviour probably will find it easy, I guess)

Edit: Actually, after playing it a bit more, it's not that hard, I think it's okay to leave it as it is then.

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[Last edited by da rogu3 at 07-08-2011 02:51 PM]

mxvladi
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New version:

3N 1E made a bit trickier.

Former 1N 1E moved at 3N and made secret; there's new puzzle at 1N 1E(not really proud of it, to be honest, but it's ok to include in the hold anyway)

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-10-2011 09:20 AM]

CuriousShyRabbit
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I've played and enjoyed some of this. It really needs a catchier title!

I'm left looking at 3N1W and 3N, saying, "Do I have to?"

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 02-11-2008
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Thanks for comments

CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I've played and enjoyed some of this. It really needs a catchier title!

Ah yeah, I agree here. If only I could think of some good title. Well, at least current one is more original than "anynamehere's dungeon".

Click here to view the secret text

×1N1W - Ran circles around the wisp for a while. The checkpoint locations are a nice hint. (And I think you should leave the hint there, because most players will be figuring out the trick for the first time.)

1N1E - This one sent me to the Monster Movement Clarification thread to verify that tar grows before mud no matter what the movement order of the mothers is. I liked this.

1N 1W -> I'll add hints-giving NPC in next version.(EDIT: after rereading what you wrote: did you mean I should leave checkpoints at their current locations(not that I was going to replace them anyway)? But oh well, I don't think hint giving NPC is going to be particulary harmful anyway, so I'll leave it in)
1N 1E -> I wasn't sure about whether players will like it or not, so I'm glad you did.

I'm left looking at 3N1W and 3N, saying, "Do I have to?"

3N 1W isn't that bad. Seriously! All you have to do is



I know that not many players will enjoy 3N, but I really don't want to throw it away. I spent too long on figuring out how to get the "stab-briar-with-four-swords-at-the-same-time" concept work.

EDIT: new version. 1N 1W has hint-giving NPC; other puzzle rooms(except entrance) now have NPCs, too. Hopefully they shouldn't distract from puzzles too much.
Also, I've changed 3N a bit. Now it has 3 mimics(with different sword directions) instead of 3 guards. The solution now should be more fun to implement. It's probably easier now, though.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-13-2011 08:48 PM]

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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Yes, in 1N1W, I did mean the checkpoint locations. But I like the NPCs you added. They make the hold seem more friendly and inviting. Having the speech above and below the puzzles is a good idea.

In reconsidering 1N1E, I wonder if I'm doing something unintended.
3N is definitely doable with the mimics. This way, it's not any harder than the rest of the rooms. Forcing the player to make 4 simultaneous stabs is a neat trick. If you're going to keep the mimics, you might consider spicing up the ending of this puzzle.

I haven't made much progress with 3N1W. I have a few F4s where I'm one sword turn away from killing the central guard (and probably also getting clobbered by the remaining loose guard). I do understand the basic idea of blocking a guard's sword with another guard's body. In a way this puzzle reminds me of the Bandit Lair in GJL:Indoors. Even though your NPCs say otherwise, getting the guards into good positions sure feels like endless trial and error to me. I'm sure, once I see the solution, I'll be able to explain why it has to work that way. But I'm not there yet.

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
In reconsidering 1N1E, I wonder if I'm doing something unintended.

Click here to view the secret text

×Is it okay that I kill the aumtlich right away, rather than hold him in place? It's okay to let his pressure plate pop up as long as I press the brain's plate before the first spawn. I can complete the room with only tar and tar babies in the center.

Hrm, yeah, I screwed up with this room.
But, I came up with another puzzle(which I like much more than current 1N 1E), so I'm planning to do some room replacements:

Puzzle at 3N moves on 1N 1E and becomes required;
3N becomes non-puzzle room;
4N becomes the place for new "secret" puzzle room

If you're okay with having to replay 3N one more time, I'll do those replacements; if you're not - 3N is still the same(with passage to 4N), and 1N 1E becomes empty.

I haven't made much progress with 3N1W. I have a few F4s where I'm one sword turn away from killing the central guard (and probably also getting clobbered by the remaining loose guard). I do understand the basic idea of blocking a guard's sword with another guard's body. Even though your NPCs say otherwise, getting the guards into good positions sure feels like endless trial and error to me.

I'm not really sure what to do with 3N 1W, then. It would help if you attach one of your F4s here, though, so I can make sure you're doing what I intended(And I fear that you are doing what I intended - in which case, I guess I'll have to rework that puzzle a bit. Or a lot).

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-21-2011 09:10 PM]

CuriousShyRabbit
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The Complain and Solve strategy finally worked! I've completed 3N1W now.
I hope you're not going to throw 1N1E away entirely. I thought it was a cool idea. I can remember only one other puzzle that uses the same game behavior. I'm happy to see your new idea too, though.

And you don't need to ask me before rearranging the rooms in your hold. That's what the architecture board is for!

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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Allright, new version. 3N puzzle moved to 1N 1E; 3N is non-puzzle room for now.

4N is experiment - it's partly a horde puzzle, partly manipulation one(mostly the latter). I've removed a lot of minor annoyances and trial-and-error parts from it, so it should be fine. Do note, though, that you'll need heavy use of ctrl-q in some parts of the puzzle.

Regarding former 1N 1E - if I manage to fix it, I'll probably put it back. In my opinion, it's currently too easy anyway, even when fixed.

And I'm glad you solved 3N 1W.

CuriousShyRabbit
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Hmmm... the new secret is kinda cool. It's a messy experiment, but with a suprisingly neat solution. There's a nice contrast between brained and unbrained queen behavior.

mxvladi
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Hmmm... the new secret is kinda cool.

Glad to hear that

Also, new version. It contains only title, level/hold description and NPC dialogue edits. And two scrolls in 1N. This is probably the last version which I'll submit after a couple of days. So, if anybody has to say something(unintended solutions, for example) about this hold, say it now.

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 07-27-2011 10:44 PM]

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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I've replayed your hold. Everything still works. I played in 3.2.0.83, but I don't see any edge case game behavior used here, so it should work fine in later versions as well. It seems I got lucky with the secret room the first time I played. This time around, setting up the second chamber was quite a bit harder. Fortunately, I had my old demo to learn from.

I like the new title much better! But the end... oh, my! Bad luck with food must run in the Budkin family line.