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larrymurk
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HiVE wrote:
Well, technically it was highly playable, just not entirely completable... though point taken.

HiVE
wearehive.com

Umm, and what level(s) were not completable? And what point was taken?

I can solve all 7 levels unless they somehow got corrupted.

Edit: please ignore this post. I misunderstood your post. Whoops.

[Last edited by larrymurk at 04-20-2011 03:03 PM]
04-20-2011 at 12:45 PM
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Briareos
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larrymurk wrote:
HiVE wrote:
Well, technically it was highly playable, just not entirely completable... though point taken.
Umm, and what level(s) were not completable? And what point was taken?

I can solve all 7 levels unless they somehow got corrupted.
I'm pretty sure that first part of the post you replied to was aimed at Rat Man's comment and not your levels... :)

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04-20-2011 at 02:19 PM
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larrymurk
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@Briareos- Yes, now that makes sense:)
Thanks
04-20-2011 at 02:45 PM
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Rat Man
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Banj: I'm sorry if I came across as thinking I knew better than all of you. Didn't mean to, nor do I think that.

HiVE: Thanks so much! Very helpful! :thumbsup Love the game, hope to soon see more great games from HiVE!

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[Last edited by Rat Man at 06-10-2011 04:29 PM]
04-20-2011 at 03:52 PM
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hyphz
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I'm going to go get this game now just because it's so awesome that the developer is responding to feedback here. :)

05-17-2011 at 06:05 PM
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Syntax
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I was one of those to be annoyed at the bugs during the first release. Am currently playing 1.3 from scratch and thoroughly impressed by the updates!

Cheers guys - very impressed by the turnaround and love the current defaults.
06-06-2011 at 12:06 AM
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TripleM
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That reminds me - I never did get around to finishing Inspection - Roll Call. Any hints? Here's what I have tried:

Click here to view the secret text

06-06-2011 at 12:38 AM
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Syntax
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TripleM wrote:
That reminds me - I never did get around to finishing Inspection - Roll Call. Any hints? Here's what I have tried:

Click here to view the secret text

Which version are you playing? I haven't got that far in 1.3 but Sophie's Choice looks impossible (though I'm sure I've completed it in a previous version).

If you''re playing pre 1.3 version, please could you upload a screenshot of that level so I can see what's changed?

[Last edited by Syntax at 06-08-2011 12:19 AM]
06-08-2011 at 12:19 AM
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TripleM
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File: sophies-choice.jpg (75.7 KB)
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Yeah, I'm using an older version. Though I too thought Sophie's Choice was impossible for a while before completing it. Image of how it looks in my version:

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by TripleM at 06-08-2011 02:25 AM]
06-08-2011 at 02:21 AM
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Syntax
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Cheers... it's the same layout so I'll persevere but at least I know it's doable now :)

Will let you know how I get on with Roll Call

[EDIT]

Wow - didn't know you could do that :)

[Last edited by Syntax at 06-08-2011 03:46 PM]
06-08-2011 at 08:35 AM
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Syntax
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File: Roll Call.PNG (520.3 KB)
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icon Re: Pragmatica (0)  
TripleM wrote:
That reminds me - I never did get around to finishing Inspection - Roll Call. Any hints? Here's what I have tried:

Click here to view the secret text

Your first assumption is wrong - always the ways, isn't it?
Let me know if you need further hints. I manged to complete this with 1 instruction to spare...

I've attached the 1.3 layout in case there was an issue with earlier an earlier version
06-08-2011 at 04:17 PM
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Syntax
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Hmm... looks like a bug with "We've failed!".
Can also complete it with one instruction to spare and without killing the group 2 robot.

Posting here in case others have had similar issues and in case Hive are still monitoring the thread...
06-08-2011 at 04:28 PM
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TripleM
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Thanks. Haven't solved it yet because I've been trying to find out how lights work and think they are buggy, but that'll give me something to work on anyway.

Have used the Hive contact form, but can you understand this:

Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by TripleM at 06-09-2011 06:43 AM]
06-09-2011 at 06:42 AM
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Syntax
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TripleM wrote:
Thanks. Haven't solved it yet because I've been trying to find out how lights work and think they are buggy, but that'll give me something to work on anyway.

Have used the Hive contact form, but can you understand this:

Click here to view the secret text

That is confusing... There's no way of "seeing lit" - it means "is lit". This just means that you can give different instructions to the lit ones (in effect splitting up the group) if you can find a way of only lighting a selection of them.

[Last edited by Syntax at 06-09-2011 05:05 PM]
06-09-2011 at 05:05 PM
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TripleM
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See lit = see lit square, not 'light on'.
06-09-2011 at 10:08 PM
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Syntax
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Oh, good point :)
I certainly didn't use continue in my solution in any case
06-10-2011 at 04:25 PM
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HiVE
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icon Re: Pragmatica (+2)  
Hi all,

Thanks, Syntax - good to hear you like the new options. :)

We've failed should indeed not be completable without toasting the Group 2. We'd reshuffled the internal layout of the victory-requirements and lost a couple in the process. Fixed now.

Lights originally behaved inconsistently by design - the idea is that if a light is the first half of a double-action, then it will skip immediately to the second one. So in your example, the second robot's Continue action appears to not execute, since the light comes on and the robot then stops - in reality, the robot consumes Continue immediately after the light is toggled, making it redundant. However, this lights/timing behaviour isn't documented anywhere and really doesn't make that much sense on reflection, so we've changed it so that toggling a light always takes a time step, regardless of where it is in the program.

As a result, some of the maps in Inspection are (VERY) slightly modified (turns out this is the only place where lights-based robot synchronisation could change the outcome of a level), including Roll Call - but the original solutions, at least, the ones we devised when building these maps, should still work verbatim. Yours may now NOT work, depending on how they use lights, but your game progress won't be affected since it will already have stored your completion of that level.

If you want to 'update' your save data by trying a new solution (e.g. if your current one is no longer valid), you need to switch off the 'Remember last used programs' option (since it will 'remember' the old programs for the locked groups which have now changed, and override the new map data with them) and complete the level once to refresh the saved data for it. A bit of a hassle... sorry.

Thanks for pointing out the lights issue - we originally considered it as part of the design, but removing it actually simplifies a lot of the timing issues and means the whole action set is time-consistent. Now, if the robot is moving when the light is toggled, it will keep moving, and if not, it'll stay put, but either way, the next action will only be consumed after the usual delay.

Other changes:

- Relay in Devil & Details is no longer trivially completable without touching the crate
- Similarly, The Convoy is no longer solvable with 'Wall -> Right'
- The L/R actions are also adjacent in the vertical symbol box
- You can no longer move a robot through solids with Light-On action (!)
- Appearance of GUI selection in program no longer jumps when the program auto-changes during successive robot wave starts
- Accessing the Available Conditions list in MapMaker no longer also re-displays the intro message by mistake...
- The game will create necessary folders if they have been deleted at startup

We've uploaded the new version here:

http://properundead.com/hive/Pragmatica_110611.zip

...but it isn't live yet. We thought we'd be extra-cautious and see if you guys unearth anything stupidly, glaringly broken like last time. We maintain confirmation that all levels are solvable with the new lights behaviour included.

Thanks again for your keen eyes and minds. We're glad you like the improvements - that was the aim. Shout if you need any more hints. :)

HiVE
wearehive.com

06-11-2011 at 12:41 PM
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TripleM
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Rather important bug - when I downloaded the new version and opened up Roll Call, the solution was provided for me (despite me not solving it yet - I didn't look at it much though :)) Devil and the Details also has all 7 levels available rather than just the first; not sure if that was the case before or not.

PS - any chance you can release patches rather than the full game download?

[Last edited by TripleM at 06-12-2011 12:49 AM]
06-12-2011 at 12:47 AM
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HiVE
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icon Re: Pragmatica (+3)  
Oops. Left that in there from the re-development. Fixed.

Patches only really work with installer-based games, and we never use installers. We're considering switching though, given the number of updates and tweaks we seem to need! If we can find a way to do it cleanly without touching a target machine's registry or higher settings, etc.

We did change Devil & Details to all-open at some point... possibly v1.3? or maybe this one. We decided since it's not a linear story (unlike Inspection or RRR), there's no reason for it to be sequentially locked.

The new /maps/ folder is attached to this post as a .zip - it should be all you need to mirror the changes with the new version. (but if not please try the full pack :))

HiVE
wearehive.com
06-12-2011 at 01:54 AM
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