HSE
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File: Mazes.hold (25.4 KB)
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I've added EVEN more to the hold now. It's in a near-complete state. Please rate and give feedback. Thanks.

UPDATE: Added warp room. Sorry guys!

[Edited by sebhaque on 07-10-2004 at 10:59 AM GMT: added warp room]




[Edited by sebhaque on 07-11-2004 at 06:30 PM GMT]

doink~
Level: Goblin

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Okay, finally finished it. Here's some comments... First of all, the mazes are a bit tedious... They can all be solved by just going straight, so I'm not so sure if they are called mazes rather than winding paths. IMO, the maze in L15 (1N1W) of Dugan's is much more challenging and rewarding. Anyway. There is no major problems in the level, but the scroll in 1N1E is unreadable, and 1N can use fewer monsters. Anyhow, it's not bad, and I'm looking forward to the 2nd level...

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agaricus5
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Yeah, I mostly agree. These are not really what I would consider mazes, although for single room trapdoor dropping exercises, they're okay.

Mazes tend to have more winding passages and tend to be made so that there is no discernible path that is obvious to the eye. Take Dugan's Dungeon, L13, Bavato's Dungeon, L5, or the Contest Hold, 1N 1E as examples of mazes you could make (although if you really want to make some mazes, be sure to test them properly for bugs).

You can have a look at the scrolls yourself, doink~ - it's anyone-edit.

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doink~
Level: Goblin

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Yup, I know I can read the scroll in the editor, but what's the point when the player couldn't when he is playing the room? Right, I'm wondering why there is a slashfest room in the middle of the mazes? That room is not a maze, so I'm a little bit curious at the diversion from the theme.

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HSE
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I just thought that people would get bored of mazes so I stuck a monster room in. I'll take out some monsters and work on the second level tonight - it's 10pm in England and I need sleep.

agaricus5
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sebhaque wrote:
I just thought that people would get bored of mazes so I stuck a monster room in. I'll take out some monsters and work on the second level tonight - it's 10pm in England and I need sleep.

Digression - totally unrelated to this hold.

I'm just curious, where about do you live in England?

Is it as hot where you are as it is down here in London?

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HSE
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I live in Morden... it's quite hot round here. Wha' bout you?

agaricus5
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sebhaque wrote:
I live in Morden... it's quite hot round here. Wha' bout you?

Morden?

...Nope. I can't find a "Morden" on my atlas anywhere. Where about in England is it?

With regards to the conditions here in north-east London (Ilford to be more precise), it's not extremely hot, but it is very stuffy and humid, so I'm going to have loads of trouble getting to sleep tonight.

Edit: Looked "Morden" up on the Internet.

Either you're somewhere in south-west London, which I suspect is the case, or you are somewhere in Dorset.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-10-2004 at 10:18 PM GMT]

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HSE
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Anyone played it yet?

agaricus5
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If you update a hold, it's best that you actually make a post that states you have done so, just so that people know about it. I myself was not aware of it until you posted.

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HSE
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OK, thanks.

HSE
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Anyone played it yet?

doink~
Level: Goblin

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Is there only one room in the hold? I can't access anything but the entrance because you need a space in front of the red gate so that the last trapdoor can be dropped. I'm not sure if you did that on purpose or not... The maze is perfectly solvable apart from that. Nice room~

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Watcher
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Unfortunately, you've made an error in the first room. It is not possible to step directly from the last trapdoor onto the red door. You have to include an ordinary square just before the door.

The first maze is well designed, though. I like it. If you want to make it a bit harder, it's possible to change most of the ordinary squares in the crosses to trapdoor squares.

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HSE
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UPDATE! UPDATE!
I've updated the hold... I don't know how I missed that first room.

agaricus5
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I've had a look, and it's not bad, although very similar to the first version.



Overall, it's an interesting concept, but I still think the "maze" element is lacking somewhat.

Oh, and on that note, in 1S 2W, I found the section near the middle-left of the room with the tar blobs quite inspirational.

Do you think it would be okay if I used the same concept for a small section in a room in my own hold, Bavato's Dungeon?

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-13-2004 at 01:17 PM GMT: Removed underline tags (they looked out of place)]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-13-2004 at 05:44 PM GMT]

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HSE
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Thanks for that, Agaricus5. Of course it's OK if you use it in your hold. You can use any idea of mine without asking, if you want, since you've been so cool towards me ever since I started making holds. Plus, you live in England

swann_88
Level: Delver

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the first trap door room was a good maze you had to think before you jumped in
I liked both the monster rooms
personally I think you do better with monsters than with mazes
although the truth with mazes is that the only real way to make them challenging is to leave no margin for error
either through doing orb mazes or trapdoors or following monsters
or by spreading them across more than 1 room

HSE
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swann_88 wrote:
the first trap door room was a good maze you had to think before you jumped in
I liked both the monster rooms
personally I think you do better with monsters than with mazes
although the truth with mazes is that the only real way to make them challenging is to leave no margin for error
either through doing orb mazes or trapdoors or following monsters
or by spreading them across more than 1 room

Thanks for the comment. I'm planning on making a few orb mazes and the current level I've started one which is just one large maze called 'the garden.' Should be complete soon.

agaricus5
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sebhaque wrote:
Thanks for the comment. I'm planning on making a few orb mazes...

Watch for the guesswork factor. From experience (Look at the comments for Bavato's Dungeon Level 1) and playtesting, most people (myself included) do not appreciate a huge amount of guesswork. If you plan to make an orb/gate combination puzzle, avoid making the guesswork one has to do too excessive, or put in checkpoints after difficult areas to decrease frustration.

...and the current level I've started one which is just one large maze called 'the garden.' Should be complete soon.

Cool. I look forward to seeing it too.

Let me guess...

Is it a conventional type of maze (Like Dugan's L13) using the "Lava" tileset (purple floor squares and green walls)?

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HSE
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Agaricus, you're psychic. Just make sure you don't spoil the maze layout .

HSE
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Anyone else played it yet?

agaricus5
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sebhaque wrote:
Anyone else played it yet?

I don't wish to be rude, but as a hold gets larger and more difficult, the pause with testing will increase. At the moment, you are only giving people a few hours to test the hold before asking if they have done so. I would suggest that you be more patient - for a small hold like yours, give people a day or two first before asking.

Oh, and always make sure that you explicitly say (make a reply to the thread) that you've updated the hold so that people are made aware of it.

I played the hold through again, and there doesn't seem to be much that has changed. Notably, 1S 1W has been made much easier with the change in scenery, and it looks like some of the trapdoor mazes have also been edited.

However, the level end stairs send me back to the same level again, so I cannot access (if it exists yet) your next level.

If you have made "The Garden", and it is within the hold that is up for download, could you please install a warp room somewhere so that we can skip the first level, and jump directly to it? I have already played it twice, and since the hold is not editable, it will a bit annoying to have to do it all again.

Finally, the Entrance still needs a few checkpoints, although as was mentioned, could be made very challenging with the removal of many of the floor squares by turning them to trapdoors. In fact, from looking, all but the one before the red door could be removed, although I'm not entirely sure, so you'll need to playtest it if you do edit it.

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HSE
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I have updated the hold - please rate!

agaricus5
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Could we have a warp room installed to go to the next level?

If not, I have to do all nine rooms of the first level again, and this is quite tedious.

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gamer_extreme_101
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Okay, I may be the only one, but as soon as I hit the stairs on the first level, it sends me back to the same level. Have you redirected the stairs, or am I missing something?

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HSE
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Added warp room.

as soon as I hit the stairs on the first level, it sends me back to the same level

Yeah, an error on my part. Sorry again.

gamer_extreme_101
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Um, where is the warp room? I couldn't find it.

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Brickman
Level: Goblin
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Hey, 2 things: 1 make it anyone edit for the beta, or at least tell us where the warp room is. 2 the first monster room can be skipped and since there's no blue door in the last room or green door in that room, you can win without killing them.

gamer_extreme_101
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Well, frustratingly, I worked my way to the 2nd level, only to find one room impossible.

The room (can't remember coordinates) with the trapdoor "maze" is impossible, because there is a section like thisExcuse the bad drawing)

          -------
  -------/
       |
       |
       |-
       |

The part going down makes it impossible to remove all the trapdoors without getting stuck. Please, as mentioned above me, make this hold anyone edit.

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