zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

My positions: I am American. I am a liberal.

Just now, I saw an item on Yahoo's front page about the CIA destroying 12 tapes which had "harsh interrogation". There are so many things wrong with merely the headline that it boggles my mind that it isn't boggling more people's minds.

"CIA destroying": This is the Central Intelligence Agency. It makes sense for them to have any and all pertinent information on anything. Destroying anything that might remotely resemble intelligence is antithetical to the purpose of the agency. The only possible reason I could think for this to occur is if something tremendously terrible on these tapes. More on this later.

"12 tapes": While even 1 destroyed tape should never have been a viable option in the first place, this is likely an underestimate. There are stated to be a total of 92 tapes that have been destroyed. I would seriously doubt that 12 is the accurate number.

"harsh interrogation": This is what is really getting to me. This phrase is trying to spin torture. "Harsh interrogation techniques" and "enhanced interrogation techniques" are jargon words for war crimes. Torture. Waterboarding. People were put to death for committing these war crimes in the past. America has signed treaties saying that we would never do such a thing. It seems that everybody in America is trying to cover somebody's butt. Every time you see "harsh interrogation", you should read "torture". Every "enhanced interrogation" is a war crime.

Cheney has admitted to being aware of these things on tape--during an interview. Logic and law seems to dictate to me that there should be a prosecution. A trial. A criminal investigation. Some justice. The threat of terrorism, even an imminent terrorist attack, can not be an excuse for torture. I think that my nation had leaders who were aware of the crimes, perhaps even signed the papers that permitted field operatives to use the torture techniques, and are not being called to task as loudly and widely as they should be.

While I wish that the people currently in power would actually do something about this brazen disregard of the spirit and letter of so many treaties that America has signed, I wish even more that the media wouldn't acquiesce to the government officials who are using these phrases. Do not attempt to cushion the impact of what was done by using these inane phrases. Call it what it is. These "harsh interrogation techniques" are torture. They are war crimes. There should be prosecutions by somebody--national or international.

I remain unfortunately unaware of what I can actually do to further this discourse.

____________________________

Maurog
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1501
Registered: 09-16-2004
IP: Logged

So, uh, after years of proudly avoiding having any politics threads on this forum, can we please apply harsh interrogation techniques to the people who post them?

Because you know, this is one forum I always counted on as a bastion of escapism where people come to talk about goblins. Thanks for poisoning the well, zex old buddy.

____________________________
Slay the living! Raise the dead!
Paint the sky in crimson red!

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

You didn't read the Yes. "Politics. Forewarning y'all." thing did you?

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
IP: Logged

NiroZ wrote:
You didn't read the Yes. "Politics. Forewarning y'all." thing did you?

So putting a "Gory Violence. Forewarning y'all." in front of a splatter story would make it suddenly appropriate here?

np: Subway - Satellites (Soul Jazz Records Singles 2006-2007 (Disc 1))

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1133
Registered: 06-17-2003
IP: Logged

As far as I'm concerned, the ethical issue addressed in zex's post is more important than the post's politics. No matter what someone's political views are, I see absolutely no excuse for making what are essentially war crimes sound like they are not as bad as they really are. I fully agree with zex on this issue.

-Noah

____________________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
IP: Logged

Waterboarding: The act of pretending to drown somebody.

Right up there with the thumbscrew and the rack.

BeefontheBone
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 184
Registered: 05-11-2006
IP: Logged

Banjooie wrote:
Waterboarding: The act of pretending to drown somebody.

Right up there with the thumbscrew and the rack.

Or making someone listen to Iron Maiden.

(Not trying to trivialise anything, I agree with the OP; just couldn't pass up the pun )

____________________________
Braindead's Mordor Site - Dungeon crawling having nothing whatsoever to do with LotR. Plus a freeware remake in-progress, featuring descriptive text written by yours truly!

Beef Row wrote: Actually, it doesn't really matter because the soap is a lye.

The spitemaster
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 354
Registered: 06-09-2005
IP: Logged

I agree with what you said here, except I think that it carries to other types of media control in every facet. For instance, if you ever hear a negative or positive word in the headline you know what slant they are giving to the story. Readily apparent in topics about "Green" anything.

____________________________
Last night upon a stair
I met a man that wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would stay away

Beef Row
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 471
Registered: 12-28-2005
IP: Logged

All (party) politics aside, the CIA pretty much was created to take extra-legal (or sometimes just plain stupid) actions and then cover them up badly. It's been that way throughout the course of its existence, largely because of a permanent tension between people in the CIA that want to deal with intelligence, and the folks who want to organize coups, play with gadgets and pretend they're secret agents with little training for the job. Legacy of Ashes is a quite well researched history of all this that sticks with actual documentation and interviews instead of veering into speculation or conspiracy theory. It basically shows the CIA has been dysfunctional since even before its inception, and stayed that way. (For instance, before the CIA even existed, some of the eventual founders were plotting how to win WW2 by capturing thousands of bats, strapping explosives to them, and releasing them from planes over Tokyo, where they would presumably fly to the first dark place they could find and then explode.)

EDIT: Basically what I'm getting at is this is unsuprising and typical of the CIA, and not a symptom of some new corruption of the agency under Bush. Doesn't make it any less low, but it really is what they usually do.

____________________________
"Now I will repeatedly apply the happy-face rule"

---

[Last edited by Beef Row at 03-19-2009 06:33 AM]