Drizzo
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 179
Registered: 03-03-2004
IP: Logged

To: Clayton
Re: 1n4w

Why?!?

-Dre

____________________________
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government
and business." - Tom Robbins

Avon
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 47
Registered: 12-06-2003
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:
There are four rooms in Joker's hold.

Are you sure you haven't missed anything?

Drizzo wrote:
To: Clayton
Re: 1n4w

Why?!?

I kind of liked that room, if only because I realised early on that I could do it in about half the number of moves I originally thought it would take.

Curse you, I Ching competition. It's about 1:45am and I was planning on getting up early tomorrow...um, today.

____________________________
"Les hommes ne sont jamais plus ingénieux que dans l'invention des jeux." -- Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Avon wrote:

eytanz wrote:
There are four rooms in Joker's hold.

Are you sure you haven't missed anything?

Yes. I just can't count.

Seriously, the person I was responding to asked if there were 3 rooms - I knew he missed one, so I just assumed there are 4 without counting.

Click here to view the secret text

×Of course, you can only do it the short way if the force is with you.

I'm curious. I personally cheated using the editor.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:
I'm curious. I personally cheated using the editor.

That's how I did it anyway.

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 548
Registered: 01-04-2004
IP: Logged

How do you rate the first entry?

Click on one of the checkboxes, then click on "Vote".



____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:

agaricus5 wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×...solve it the way that I made it. It's Anyone Edit, so you can make a copy of the room. Once you have an editable copy, note the position of Beethro and his mimic when you step on the second potion, and use it as the starting point. In a step-by-step format, imagine you have moved Beethro forward (or backward along the trapdoor area, and turn the trapdoor with the mimic potion to a pit, as would have happened if you did this in the game. Place a force arrow over the pit to show which direction you have moved (so you don't forget) and do likewise for the mimic, for it would have moved as well. Continue on, replacing one trapdoor at a time with pit and marking the movements of both you and the mimic. Eventually you should be able to guess at the solution by looking at your relative positions and remaining trapdoors. Oh, and if you make a mistake, just reset the trapdoors and remove the arrows back to a point where you know your solution is correct.

If you find yourself in a literary mood some time, there might be an Architect's Toolkit article in that for designing such rooms.

That's an idea.

However, I've got an article I'm waiting to create at the moment as well. All I need now is to sort out Bavato's Dungeon to see if what I'm going to say has the desired effect.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

Sim
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
IP: Logged

Thanks for the advice agaricus, however

Avon
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 47
Registered: 12-06-2003
IP: Logged

gds wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×It saves a lot of running around the room but add a lot of waiting.

____________________________
"Les hommes ne sont jamais plus ingénieux que dans l'invention des jeux." -- Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

ClaytonW
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 961
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Drizzo wrote:
To: Clayton
Re: 1n4w

Why?!?

Perseverance.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

Clayton
there is perseverence
and then there is PERSEVERENCE

ARRRGH

and then there's the "oh no I left my finger on the key too long lets wait for the snake AGAIN!"

I would suggest breaking the snake into a couple of shorter snakes
cut the waiting in half or something
it would still be perseverence

[Edited by swann_88 on 04-20-2004 at 05:14 PM GMT]

Drizzo
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 179
Registered: 03-03-2004
IP: Logged

or making your point with a square with a length 4 smaller on each side.

that's 8 less buttons and 16 squares less waiting each time around... would've made all the difference in the world. I'd give your hold a 2 just because of that room, if the turning down the volume thing (LOL) and the awesome previous room didn't make up for 90% of the offense. I'm afraid that cut you out of the perfect 5 though.

____________________________
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government
and business." - Tom Robbins

Watcher
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 902
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, so I thought I'd ask: How will the winners be determined? Will each hold be given a score equal to the average of all votes for it, and then highest score wins?

____________________________
Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Watcher wrote:
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, so I thought I'd ask: How will the winners be determined? Will each hold be given a score equal to the average of all votes for it, and then highest score wins?

For each entry, add up the products of vote count and rating. For example, entry 1's sum is:

(1 x 1) + (2 x 0) + (3 x 3) + (4 x 3) + (5 x 2) = 32

After polls close, the entry with the highest sum wins.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

Drizzo
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 179
Registered: 03-03-2004
IP: Logged

My guess is you'll find that submission one wins, due to a couple folks who didn't know you had to vote all at once.

Seems average score might be a better method, but that may just be me.

I have no idea how the voting is going so far, as I still have to finish Ag, Bib and Watcher's. BTW, I'm glad Watcher didn't get Clay's reading... That boy knows how to REALLY do persistence. Check the Eternity hold if you're unfamiliar.

____________________________
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government
and business." - Tom Robbins

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Drizzo wrote:
BTW, I'm glad Watcher didn't get Clay's reading... That boy knows how to REALLY do persistence. Check the Eternity hold if you're unfamiliar.

You'll find, I think, that this is not quite accurate. In actual fact, Watcher has the exact same reading as Clayton, although the interpretation is in a different style, and has much less perseverance inside it.

My guess is you'll find that submission one wins, due to a couple folks who didn't know you had to vote all at once.

Seems average score might be a better method, but that may just be me.

I have no idea how the voting is going so far, as I still have to finish Ag, Bib and Watcher's.

Voting statistics so far have been varied and quite interesting to observe...



____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

Drizzo
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 179
Registered: 03-03-2004
IP: Logged

oh... I guess I should've checked the reading... I haven't touched Watcher's hold yet. Got distracted from DROD by setting up my livejournal.
the comment was more just an excuse to shout out his Eternity hold, which makes Clayton's look like the blink of an eye, or perhaps more accurately the time it takes the electrical impulse for an eyeblink to travel a distance equivalent to the outer membrane on the eye.

Good to see that the voting is working out well, however if everyone has the same number of votes, then average score predicts the same winner as the total... it takes a lot more shadiness to significantly effect the average score though.

Oh well, I didn't enter, I was too busy vacationing to make a hold, so I don't really care who wins. So long as it's not Satan-Mushroom, or Mr. 'Perseverance'... I kid. Your holds are great, and would both be deserving winners.


We'll just see how well that coffee mug comforts you when you're being tormented in that special place in hell reserved for sadistic architects.



____________________________
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government
and business." - Tom Robbins

Watcher
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 902
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Drizzo wrote:
My guess is you'll find that submission one wins, due to a couple folks who didn't know you had to vote all at once.

Seems average score might be a better method, but that may just be me.

I'm not sure about this, but I think the poll system is set up such that your vote will not be accepted if you haven't made a selection for every question. So I wouldn't worry about this.

I have no idea how the voting is going so far, as I still have to finish Ag, Bib and Watcher's. BTW, I'm glad Watcher didn't get Clay's reading... That boy knows how to REALLY do persistence. Check the Eternity hold if you're unfamiliar.

I'd almost forgotten about that one. Don't worry, though, there's nothing that bad in my hold. Really, Eternity and most of the other holds in that thread had ridiculously long solutions. Nobody would play them attempting seriously to finish. I wouldn't pull of something like that in a "real" hold.

____________________________
Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Drizzo wrote:
My guess is you'll find that submission one wins, due to a couple folks who didn't know you had to vote all at once.

Seems average score might be a better method, but that may just be me.

Hmm.

So far each entry has the same amount of votes (nine, right now). As long as this remains true, I believe the average score method will yield exactly the same results as the sum method in determining who wins. If somebody fails to vote for all of the entries then I guess we could use the averaging method in that case. I should probably just use the average because it will be more meaningful to say a hold was rated "4.3" out of 5 than to say it accumulated 32 points.

Okay, we will go by averages because: 1. It will be fairer than summing if not all entries get same number of votes. 2. It won't be less fair than summing if all entries get same number votes. 3. An average score provides better context than a sum when you want to see how well your entry did.

The formula of calculation for one entry is:
( (1 * count of "1" entry votes) + (2 * count of "2" entry votes) + (3 * count of "3" entry votes) + (4 * count of "4" entry votes) + (5 * count of "5" entry votes) ) / count of all entry votes

-Erik

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
IP: Logged

How many people actually found the REAL exit to Holding Together? There IS "water" upon the earth. I do explain everything.

Have you solved ALL the rooms?

After you do that, hold together.

And swann...


~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

Sim
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
IP: Logged

I did.

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
IP: Logged

Yup. It's ingenious. Due to the requirements, people who reach the stairs can get the personal satisfaction of beating 3 not-that-hard rooms. Those who did something else got slightly more satisfaction.

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
IP: Logged

Could I have some hints on Ricky’s Entry 06 – Deliverance: 2S, 2W please.

Just how do you go about programming the roaches’ path? Do you have to stay on the ‘deliberately left empty’ scrolls only? Does your path to the northwest-most empty scroll and the return have to be the same? Is the point in the spawn cycle relevant – as to when you have to strike the releasing orb perhaps – etc?

I have been trying to do it by trial and error for over three hours now, sticking blobs of Blu-Tack on the screen, and the best I have done is to capture two, non-consecutive, roaches. As a final spoiler, which I shall only use in desperation, and numbering the six capture cells from NW to SE, could someone give me the order in which the roaches should pass through the cells. My best results have been in the order 1, 2, 4, 3, 5 and 6 but the last two seem to be too close together.

I thank you in advance and I am well aware of what is to come after this room is cleared.

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

Atch wrote:
Could I have some hints on Ricky’s Entry 06 – Deliverance: 2S, 2W please.

Just how do you go about programming the roaches’ path? Do you have to stay on the ‘deliberately left empty’ scrolls only? Does your path to the northwest-most empty scroll and the return have to be the same? Is the point in the spawn cycle relevant – as to when you have to strike the releasing orb perhaps – etc?

As a final spoiler, which I shall only use in desperation, and numbering the six capture cells from NW to SE, could someone give me the order in which the roaches should pass through the cells.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

well I think I finally got far enough to vote
I never managed to get the first room in obstruction
I never quite figured out what was going on in deliverance
great job by everyone some interesting interpretations of the passages

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Pasted from the dexterity forums but still true, here are my thoughts on the holds:



____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Over 30 people downloaded the holds, but there are only 12 votes. Might it be a good idea to run the poll for a little bit longer, so people who haven't yet noticed the forums are back up will have some time to get their votes in? I think my vote from 3 weeks ago is the most recent vote.

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:
Over 30 people downloaded the holds, but there are only 12 votes.

I'm not surprised at these numbers. It takes a largish commitment to play through all of the holds.

Might it be a good idea to run the poll for a little bit longer, so people who haven't yet noticed the forums are back up will have some time to get their votes in? I think my vote from 3 weeks ago is the most recent vote.

If I hear from at least two people that plan to vote soon, but not before the vote closes, then I'll extend it. Keep in mind that we are probably going to have a runoff vote, so latecomers will still get a chance to participate.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Yeah, it is really close right now. Without saying whose hold is whose, the numbers are:

48
48
45
44
43
42
35

If more people vote, it really is anyone's contest.

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5152
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I can't figure out Deliverance:1S. Does the I Ching reading have anything to do with solving it, or is it just hard and/or tricky?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

bibelot
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 322
Registered: 07-11-2003
IP: Logged

The reading is related to this room, but it might not be clear why until you finish the hold.

I assume you're having trouble just getting past all the roaches. There's not really a trick to it; it's just hard. I had originally had four fewer roach queens, but I thought that was too easy. Then I added two more, and that was doable. Then I thought, why not, and added two more. That took me quite a few tries, but I got it eventually.