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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Vote on I Ching Entries! (How do you rate the first entry?)
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How do you rate the first entry?
1 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
2 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
3 PollPollPoll 5 38.46%
4 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
5 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%

How do you rate the second entry?
1 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
2 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
3 PollPollPoll 6 46.15%
4 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
5 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%

How do you rate the third entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
3 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%
4 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%
5 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%

How do you rate the fourth entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
3 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%
4 PollPollPoll 5 38.46%
5 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%

How do you rate the fifth entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
3 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%
4 PollPollPoll 5 38.46%
5 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%

How do you rate the sixth entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
3 PollPollPoll 6 46.15%
4 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
5 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%

How do you rate the seventh entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
3 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%
4 PollPollPoll 8 61.54%
5 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
Total Votes 16 100%
Poster Message
gds
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
I think I forgot the mimic potion for this room. I thought it was there, but on closer looking, it's not next to the scroll at the bottom-left, as I thought.

Does this disqualify the hold?


We'll have to see what Erik says but I think it would be unfair to disqualify a hold for something like this. After all, the first three holds all have some sort of design oversight.

In my opinion, the spirit of the room can be understood and the whole of the hold can be explored so I fully intend to rate the holds as if those mistakes weren't there.

For information, Joker5,
Click here to view the secret text

04-17-2004 at 04:42 PM
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bibelot
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quote:
Scott wrote:
When you say a hold must be completed does that mean the exit level comes up or you get to the exit stairs?

In Rickeys hold (Deliverance)
Click here to view the secret text



Click here to view the secret text

04-17-2004 at 05:04 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
bibelot wrote:
quote:
Scott wrote:
When you say a hold must be completed does that mean the exit level comes up or you get to the exit stairs?

In Rickeys hold (Deliverance)
Click here to view the secret text



Click here to view the secret text



Click here to view the secret text


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04-17-2004 at 07:51 PM
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gds
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Bibelot, you're an evil man! And the master of trickery. After the fool errand, that trick you've pulled on Scott (and myself, I couldn't believe I had to replay through those rooms) was evil and the trick to solving 2S2W was even more evil. I don't know whether to applaud or to take points away for that one as it requires a deep knowledge of Drod.

I must admit it is very cool seeing those roaches walking in a seemingly strange pattern.

Agaricus, yes it is possible.
Click here to view the secret text


In case, it wasn't clear, it is an excellent hold. Not for new players though.

[Edited by gds on 04-17-2004 at 07:14 PM GMT]
04-17-2004 at 08:13 PM
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Sim
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Click here to view the secret text


The only other hold I have left to complete is the Obstruction one, I'm still stuck on the first room, but I think I've nearly got it. Who made that hold by the way, I didn't see a forum name there?
04-17-2004 at 08:17 PM
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agaricus5
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Sim wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


The only other hold I have left to complete is the Obstruction one, I'm still stuck on the first room, but I think I've nearly got it. Who made that hold by the way, I didn't see a forum name there?

The author's name is attached to the hold file on the first page.

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04-17-2004 at 08:23 PM
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gds
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Sim wrote:
Click here to view the secret text


I've completed all the holds, with the exception of Agaricus' one (obstruction), as he made a silly mistake in the last room.
04-17-2004 at 08:37 PM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
I think I forgot the mimic potion for this room. I thought it was there, but on closer looking, it's not next to the scroll at the bottom-left, as I thought.

I'm a little irritated, because it seems that authors should at a minimum ensure that their hold is solvable, but...

I'll leave it up to the voters to decide. If you feel like holding it against the author that a mistake made the hold unsolvable, so be it. But if you get stuck, please confirm with the author that you aren't just missing the correct way to solve the hold. For example, in Bibelot's hold
Click here to view the secret text
.

-Erik

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04-17-2004 at 09:04 PM
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Drizzo
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
For example, in Bibelot's hold
Click here to view the secret text
.



That seems to be his Standard Operating Procedure... Bibelot doesn't seem to like to create holds in which victory is obtained how you would expect it. On that note, I think I'll attack that hold, although Obstruction is calling me... hmm


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04-17-2004 at 09:09 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
I'm a little irritated, because it seems that authors should at a minimum ensure that their hold is solvable, but...

I'll leave it up to the voters to decide. If you feel like holding it against the author that a mistake made the hold unsolvable, so be it. But if you get stuck, please confirm with the author that you aren't just missing the correct way to solve the hold. For example, in Bibelot's hold
Click here to view the secret text
.

-Erik


I'm very sorry, Erik.

Next time I try to enter for a competition, I won't assume again that once the thing is entered, I won't need to re-enter it. What broke it was fiddling with it for use in Bavato's Dungeon. I should make a second copy next time to do that.

Edit: In fact, I always seem to do this with my holds. I just can't understand why I can't go and make another copy of them to change them. It really makes me feel exceptionally bad that I've wasted the time of so many forum users, testers and players now and in the past just because I'm disorganised.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-17-2004 at 08:24 PM GMT]

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04-17-2004 at 09:19 PM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
I'm a little irritated, because it seems that authors should at a minimum ensure that their hold is solvable, but...

I'm very sorry, Erik.

Ah, I had a grumpy morning. I still appreciate the many hours you spent putting your hold together for the contest. I was just torn between sticking to the rules out of fairness to all entrants or being too severe about a mistake that would be really easy to make. In hindsight, I might have specified the rules differently.

I think it is best to keep all the versions we have now--no more updates--and let voters decide if any flaws found are worth a lower rating.

-Erik


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04-18-2004 at 01:17 AM
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Mikko
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I'm stuck on 1E in the Return hold. I can easily clear the first two groups of monsters, but in the third one I can only manage to kill 10 roaches.

In Obstruction, 2S2W also seems impossible to me, and not just the exit room.
04-18-2004 at 10:43 AM
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gds
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quote:
Mikko wrote:
I'm stuck on 1E in the Return hold. I can easily clear the first two groups of monsters, but in the third one I can only manage to kill 10 roaches.

Click here to view the secret text

The way I did it:
Click here to view the secret text

quote:
In Obstruction, 2S2W also seems impossible to me, and not just the exit room.

It is possible. What is giving you trouble ?
04-18-2004 at 11:12 AM
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gds
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Erik, the I-ching description for entry 4 (Clayton) and entry 7 (watcher) is the same. I don't think it's meant to be as it doesn't match watcher hold.

[Edited by gds on 04-18-2004 at 01:22 PM GMT]
04-18-2004 at 02:21 PM
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gds wrote:
Erik, the I-ching description for entry 4 (Clayton) and entry 7 (watcher) is the same. I don't think it's meant to be as it doesn't match watcher hold.

[Edited by gds on 04-18-2004 at 01:22 PM GMT]


Huh? :huh That reading is the one Erik sent me. It is also placed on a couple of scrolls right at the beginning of my hold. I don't see how it doesn't match. Unless, of course, I have done a lousy job on the hold.

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04-18-2004 at 02:29 PM
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dimono
I too had no Idea what was intended with the roach maze
until after I passed the green door
I thought "nothing is undertaken" covered standing still to kill the first snake
ps I never met a dimono room I didn't have to restart from scratch yet oh well at least I get through them in the end
04-18-2004 at 03:20 PM
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Mikko
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Thanks gds! I overlooked something very simple in the Obstruction room. I should have paid more attention to the scroll.
04-18-2004 at 03:57 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
Watcher wrote:
quote:
gds wrote:
Erik, the I-ching description for entry 4 (Clayton) and entry 7 (watcher) is the same. I don't think it's meant to be as it doesn't match watcher hold.

[Edited by gds on 04-18-2004 at 01:22 PM GMT]


Huh? :huh That reading is the one Erik sent me. It is also placed on a couple of scrolls right at the beginning of my hold. I don't see how it doesn't match. Unless, of course, I have done a lousy job on the hold.

The reading does require and relies on the imagination quite heavily. As explained in the final sets of scrolls in 1N, the reading sort of matches the hold when you fill in the obvious limitations of the reading with your imagination. Oh, and on that note, Watcher, in what language are the symbols in the room corners?

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04-18-2004 at 04:40 PM
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agaricus5 wrote:
The reading does require and relies on the imagination quite heavily. As explained in the final sets of scrolls in 1N, the reading sort of matches the hold when you fill in the obvious limitations of the reading with your imagination.


Agreed, but it's sort of to be expected that some parts will be stretching the reading quite a bit. Most, if not all, of the entries require quite some use of the imagination to get the reading to match the hold.

quote:
Oh, and on that note, Watcher, in what language are the symbols in the room corners?


They're kanji characters, which are used in Chinese and Japanese. Even though the characters are shared, the words are not pronounced the same way in both languages, though.

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04-18-2004 at 04:47 PM
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ErikH2000
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gds wrote:
Erik, the I-ching description for entry 4 (Clayton) and entry 7 (watcher) is the same. I don't think it's meant to be as it doesn't match watcher hold.

By accident, I gave them both the same reading. However, I don't think any harm was done.

-Erik

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04-18-2004 at 05:17 PM
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gds
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Watcher wrote:
Huh? :huh That reading is the one Erik sent me. It is also placed on a couple of scrolls right at the beginning of my hold. I don't see how it doesn't match. Unless, of course, I have done a lousy job on the hold.

Yes, sorry. As I just looked at clayton's hold beforehand, my mind was probably constrained by his interpretation.

There's a problem, nonetheless, you two shouldn't have ended with the same reading. It's too late to do anything about it, though.


[Edited by gds on 04-18-2004 at 04:19 PM GMT: spelling]
04-18-2004 at 05:18 PM
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swann_88 wrote:
dimono
I too had no Idea what was intended with the roach maze
until after I passed the green door
I thought "nothing is undertaken" covered standing still to kill the first snake
Yeah, I'm sorry about 1S everyone, there is supposed to be trapdoor in the north-western snake loop, so you can't place a mimic in there. On the assumption that Erik will leave the current version of the hold up for the contest, as it really was an oversight on my part to forget to lay that loop, I'll just meekly request that everyone assume you're not allowed to place a mimic in the snake loop, to get the intended feel for the room :|
quote:
ps I never met a dimono room I didn't have to restart from scratch yet oh well at least I get through them in the end
Thanks... I think...

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04-18-2004 at 08:06 PM
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Sim
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I just can't do the entrance room on Obstruction!

Click here to view the secret text

04-18-2004 at 10:01 PM
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agaricus5
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It's a very tight puzzle.

You need to move the mimic and yourself in an exact preset sequence (Well, I think). I'm not sure if I can give you any general hints as this section has a specific solution, so if you're really stuck, I can give you a spoiler-ish part-solution of the final few moves you need to make before dropping the red door, from which you could piece together the rest of the sequence, perhaps?

Edit:

One way you could work out the solution is to...

Click here to view the secret text


[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-18-2004 at 09:27 PM GMT]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-18-2004 at 10:21 PM GMT: Atrocious grammar caused by tiredness.]

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04-18-2004 at 10:19 PM
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joker5
just finished your hold
there are only 3 rooms right?
the stairs bring me back to the entrance
in the second room I was able to use the roachs to kill the snake
I assume you wanted the goblin to be used
04-19-2004 at 12:59 AM
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eytanz
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There are four rooms in Joker's hold. I also killed the serpent with the roach.

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04-19-2004 at 01:32 AM
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
Click here to view the secret text

If you find yourself in a literary mood some time, there might be an Architect's Toolkit article in that for designing such rooms.

Also, not like there's a lot of action on this board recently, but should this thread be stickied?

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04-19-2004 at 05:13 AM
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is anyone else having trouble with clayton's second room
I can't get the queens to spawn less than 18 roachs
and I can't get in a position to kill more than 1 at a time
04-19-2004 at 05:33 AM
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Drizzo
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For clayton's second room (actually the third) you need to
Click here to view the secret text

If that's not enough, this might help
Click here to view the secret text


I loved that level btw, Clayton, unlike most anything I'd done before.

[Edited by Drizzo on 04-19-2004 at 05:13 AM GMT: I made a huge mess of this post]

[Edited by Drizzo on 04-19-2004 at 05:14 AM GMT: and didn't fix it after 5 edits...]

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04-19-2004 at 06:03 AM
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Drizzo
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Excellent little hold, Sim... most of the rooms had me puzzled at first, forcing a number of restarts for each oversight, without too much difficulty like some other holds I could mention... You took that "Return" theme very seriously, which I found quite fun, although I found your adherence to the Image part of your reading even more entertaining when I reread it after completion, and the highlight of the hold.

Several points I was feeling frustrated, assuming that things were impossible, until I realized I was missing one minor thing. Almost always a sign of a well designed hold. Good to see you around and architecting (izzat a word? architexturizing?) and I hope you'll stick with us.


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04-19-2004 at 07:44 AM
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