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Caravel Forum : Caravel Boards : Contests : Vote on I Ching Entries! (How do you rate the first entry?)
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How do you rate the first entry?
1 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
2 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
3 PollPollPoll 5 38.46%
4 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
5 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%

How do you rate the second entry?
1 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
2 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
3 PollPollPoll 6 46.15%
4 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
5 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%

How do you rate the third entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
3 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%
4 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%
5 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%

How do you rate the fourth entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
3 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%
4 PollPollPoll 5 38.46%
5 PollPollPoll 4 30.77%

How do you rate the fifth entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
3 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%
4 PollPollPoll 5 38.46%
5 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%

How do you rate the sixth entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 1 7.69%
3 PollPollPoll 6 46.15%
4 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
5 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%

How do you rate the seventh entry?
1 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
2 PollPollPoll 0 0.00%
3 PollPollPoll 2 15.38%
4 PollPollPoll 8 61.54%
5 PollPollPoll 3 23.08%
Total Votes 16 100%
Poster Message
ErikH2000
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Don't vote yet!

I'll be posting seven holds for you to evaluate, followed by voting instructions.

-Erik

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04-16-2004 at 07:10 PM
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File: Entry 01 - DiMono.hold (6 KB)
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* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

Difficulty at the Beginning works supreme success,
Furthering through perseverance.
Nothing should be undertaken.
It furthers one to appoint helpers.

* * * THE IMAGE * * *

Clouds and thunder:
The image of Difficulty at the Beginning.
Thus the superior man
Brings order out of confusion.

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 04-16-2004 at 06:26 PM GMT]

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04-16-2004 at 07:17 PM
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* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

Holding Together brings good fortune.
Inquire of the oracle once again
Whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance;
Then there is no blame.
Those who are uncertain gradually join.
Whoever comes too late
Meets with misfortune.

* * * THE IMAGE * * *

On the earth is water:
The image of Holding Together.
Thus the kings of antiquity
Bestowed the different states as fiefs
And cultivated friendly relations
With the feudal lords.

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04-16-2004 at 07:19 PM
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File: Entry 03 - Agaricus.hold (6.4 KB)
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There was an error in the original hold. I reattached an updated version about 4 hours after the first original hold was posted. If you downloaded Agaricus' hold previously, then please download this updated version to use for evaluation instead. How would you know if your version of the hold is the old one? Answer: This paragraph would not have been present in this message when you downloaded it. ;)

* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

Obstruction. The southwest furthers.
The northeast does not further.
It furthers one to see the great man.
Perseverance brings good fortune.

* * * THE IMAGE * * *

Water on the mountain:
The image of Obstruction.
Thus the superior man turns his attention to himself
And molds his character.

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 04-16-2004 at 08:59 PM GMT: Attached correct hold.]

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04-16-2004 at 07:19 PM
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* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

The Receptive brings about sublime success,
Furthering through the perseverance of a mare.
If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;
But if he follows, he finds guidance.
It is favorable to find friends in the west and south,
To forego friends in the east and north.
Quiet perseverance brings good fortune.

* * * THE IMAGE * * *

The earth's condition is receptive devotion.
Thus the superior man who has breadth of character
Carries the outer world.

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04-16-2004 at 07:20 PM
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* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

Return. Success.
Going out and coming in without error.
Friends come without blame.
To and fro goes the way.
On the seventh day comes return.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.

* * * THE IMAGE * * *

Thunder within the earth:
The image of the Turning Point.
Thus the kings of antiquity closed the passes
At the time of solstice.
Merchants and strangers did not go about,
And the ruler
Did not travel through the provinces.

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04-16-2004 at 07:22 PM
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* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

Deliverance. The southwest furthers.
If there is no longer anything where one has to go,
Return brings good fortune.
If there is still something where one has to go,
Hastening brings good fortune.

* * * THE IMAGE * * *

Thunder and rain set in:
The image of Deliverance.
Thus the superior man pardons mistakes
And forgives misdeeds.

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 04-16-2004 at 06:25 PM GMT: Fixed subject.]

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04-16-2004 at 07:23 PM
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* * * THE JUDGMENT * * *

The Receptive brings about sublime success,
Furthering through the perseverance of a mare.
If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;
But if he follows, he finds guidance.
It is favorable to find friends in the west and south,
To forego friends in the east and north.
Quiet perseverance brings good fortune.


* * * THE IMAGE * * *

The earth's condition is receptive devotion.
Thus the superior man who has breadth of character
Carries the outer world.

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04-16-2004 at 07:24 PM
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ErikH2000
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Okay, peoples! Here's what you gotta do before voting:

1. Play all seven of the holds to completion.
2. If you can't finish a hold, post here for help so you can get past it. If for some reason it is impossible to finish the hold, we will disqualify that entry.

When voting, you should consider the following:

1. Think of the ratings this way: 5 = Perfect, 4 = Excellent, 3 = Good, 2 = Neutral opinion, 1 = Negative opinion. The scale is skewed so you have more expression of positive opinions.
2. You are judging how well the author has interpreted the I Ching reading he was given and how fun the hold is for you to play. I would suggest these two factors be given equal weight. When in doubt, just go with the hold you like best for whatever reasons.
3. Please, don't consider who the author is when voting. (I apologize that I didn't have time to make the holds anonymous.)
4. There is one hold I know of that has more than eight rooms, apparently in violation of the contest rules. However, two of those rooms just contain simple connecting passages, so I would ask that you not hold this against the author when voting.
5. It's quite alright to publicly discuss holds before voting is concluded--more fun that way. Just keep your own counsel when you vote.
6. If an author votes, he should vote "5" for his own hold, no matter what his opinion of his own work is. My rationale for this is described in a post below.

Even if you don't end up voting, this is a nice little collection of mini-holds to try out. I've tried some of them out and the quality is good. Like short stories versus novels, there is an elegance to them you won't find in large holds. So definitely, you want to download these and play through them.

The poll is going to close (automatically!) at the end of April. My original contest announcement is found here.

-Erik

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 04-16-2004 at 08:01 PM GMT: Added #6 to voting considerations.]

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04-16-2004 at 07:57 PM
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DiMono
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Erik, what do you want us authors to do? Should we all vote ourselves 5, should we not vote on ours at all, should we all vote neutral on our own holds...?

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04-16-2004 at 08:07 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
Okay, peoples! Here's what you gotta do before voting:

1. Play all seven of the holds to completion.
2. If you can't finish a hold, post here for help so you can get past it. If for some reason it is impossible to finish the hold, we will disqualify that entry.

When voting, you should consider the following:

1. Think of the ratings this way: 5 = Perfect, 4 = Excellent, 3 = Good, 2 = Neutral opinion, 1 = Negative opinion. The scale is skewed so you have more expression of positive opinions.
2. You are judging how well the author has interpreted the I Ching reading he was given and how fun the hold is for you to play. I would suggest these two factors be given equal weight. When in doubt, just go with the hold you like best for whatever reasons.
3. Please, don't consider who the author is when voting. (I apologize that I didn't have time to make the holds anonymous.)
4. There is one hold I know of that has more than eight rooms, apparently in violation of the contest rules. However, two of those rooms just contain simple connecting passages, so I would ask that you not hold this against the author when voting.
5. It's quite alright to publicly discuss holds before voting is concluded--more fun that way. Just keep your own counsel when you vote.

Even if you don't end up voting, this is a nice little collection of mini-holds to try out. I've tried some of them out and the quality is good. Like short stories versus novels, there is an elegance to them you won't find in large holds. So definitely, you want to download these and play through them.

The poll is going to close (automatically!) at the end of April. My original contest announcement is found here.

-Erik


Please forgive me, Erik.

I messed with the hold so I could use some of the ideas in Bavato's Dungeon after I sent the first version, and broke it when I sent the second version to you (I didn't check).

Please update the file with the one you have in your e-mail if you can.

I'm sorry.

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04-16-2004 at 08:32 PM
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ErikH2000
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Ah, good question!

Why don't we say that all authors should give themselves a "5"? That way there can be no worry about unscrupulous voting. Otherwise, you might lose just because you're the self-deprecating sort and another fellow is overly proud or opportunistic. So all authors are obliged to rate their own hold as a perfect five.

-Erik

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04-16-2004 at 08:33 PM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
Please update the file with the one you have in your e-mail if you can.

I've removed the attachment for now. Please send that e-mail soon!

-Erik

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04-16-2004 at 08:36 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
Please update the file with the one you have in your e-mail if you can.

I've removed the attachment for now. Please send that e-mail soon!

-Erik


Thank you. I sent it to you this morning.

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04-16-2004 at 08:39 PM
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agaricus5
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DiMono, I've been trying out your entry, but I'm still stuck on the first room. In the rectanglular area of trapdoors on the bottom-left, I can't seem to drop all the trapdoors - I keep getting one or two left over. Which entrance to the area do I need to use? The one on the left or right?

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04-16-2004 at 08:51 PM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
quote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
I've removed the attachment for now. Please send that e-mail soon!
Thank you. I sent it to you this morning.

Could you please send it again? I don't have it for some reason.

-Erik

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04-16-2004 at 09:07 PM
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Agaricus5,
Click here to view the secret text


DiMono,
Click here to view the secret text


[Edited by gds on 04-16-2004 at 08:21 PM GMT]

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 04-16-2004 at 09:05 PM GMT: Added secret tags to spoilers.]
04-16-2004 at 09:13 PM
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ErikH2000
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Anyone who downloaded Agaricus' hold before I updated the correct version (5 minutes ago at 2pm, Pacific Standard Time), would you please do myself and Agaricus the courtesy of downloading the new version for evaluation.

-Erik

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04-16-2004 at 10:01 PM
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ErikH2000
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Please, use secret tags when giving out room hints and other spoilers.

-Erik


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04-16-2004 at 10:06 PM
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agaricus5
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I really wish there were in-between numbers.

I really wanted to give 3.5s to one or two instead of 3s, but there was no option for it, so I had to round down.

Is it alright to give my thoughts on the holds here, or should I wait until the contest is over?

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04-17-2004 at 01:05 AM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:
I really wish there were in-between numbers.

I really wanted to give 3.5s to one or two instead of 3s, but there was no option for it, so I had to round down.

Yeah, I started out to do a scale of 1 to 10, but I realized it would take me forever to set up the poll, i.e. click "Add new option", wait 15 seconds for page to reload, repeat for four more options. Repeat all that for six more entries. So that's why you got 1 to 5.
quote:
Is it alright to give my thoughts on the holds here, or should I wait until the contest is over?

Sure, go ahead. You might put your thoughts in secret tags, prefixed by some description of what the secret is.

-Erik

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04-17-2004 at 01:26 AM
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DiMono
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gds wrote:
DiMono,
Click here to view the secret text

Wow, I just realized what your method is, and it was all just a simple oversight. Erik, are you cool with me updating this room to remove the trivial solution? I'll email it to you regardless, and if you feel like letting the update go through then bully for me.

[Edited by DiMono on 04-17-2004 at 02:37 AM GMT]

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04-17-2004 at 03:36 AM
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Wow, DiMono, I don't know if that's exactly a simple oversight... I had no clue what you wanted done with that puzzle until I got through the green door, quite easily I might add... However after that scroll I am definitely impressed with what you were intending in that room, if (as usual) angered by your sadism. I assume the intended solution would have
Click here to view the secret text

as for the prior room
Click here to view the secret text


The third room could have required you to make a little more order out of chaos, but I guess that would require more roach queens to enforce that... and then it'd just be more tedious at the end.

But it's pretty decent, and shows a lot of thought was put into it. So far it's hands down, far and away, the super mega awesome bestest I Ching room I've played.
But there's still 6 to go, so we'll see.


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04-17-2004 at 05:58 AM
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ErikH2000
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quote:
DiMono wrote:
Wow, I just realized what your method is, and it was all just a simple oversight. Erik, are you cool with me updating this room to remove the trivial solution? I'll email it to you regardless, and if you feel like letting the update go through then bully for me.

Ack! I gotta get out of this updating business. The first one for Agaricus was a borderline case. No votes were cast yet and he had just given me the wrong version of his hold. At this point, whatever holds are up there are the final version for the contest, whatever faults they may contain. Certainly, after the contest is over, we all want to see versions improved from feedback. In fact, I would love to release an I Ching compilation in one hold after this is over.

-Erik

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04-17-2004 at 07:21 AM
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Ag: You're the devil, aren't you?

I'd heard that Bavato's was the hardest hold around.
If it's anything like your I Ching hold, I believe it.

However, if I do ever manage to complete it (and I'm still only on the first room) it's darn near everything I could want out of an I Ching hold so far. Good interpretation (extremely good), interesting puzzle, and challenging (so much so that I'm going to move on to another hold, until my brain stops hurting)

Excellent though, but very frustrating... I'd tell you to add checkpoints, but those wouldn't really work.


But you are the devil, right?


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04-17-2004 at 07:55 AM
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Scott
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When you say a hold must be completed does that mean the exit level comes up or you get to the exit stairs?

In Rickeys hold (Deliverance)
Click here to view the secret text

04-17-2004 at 08:07 AM
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agaricus5
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quote:
Drizzo wrote:
Ag: You're the devil, aren't you?


No. Why would you say that? :devil

quote:
I'd heard that Bavato's was the hardest hold around.
If it's anything like your I Ching hold, I believe it.

However, if I do ever manage to complete it (and I'm still only on the first room) it's darn near everything I could want out of an I Ching hold so far. Good interpretation (extremely good), interesting puzzle, and challenging (so much so that I'm going to move on to another hold, until my brain stops hurting)


It's "Anyone Edit", so you should be able to view it in the Editor. I think only the Entrance and 1S 1W are very difficult.

quote:
But you are the devil, right?



Well, I....

Hmm...

:devil

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04-17-2004 at 09:38 AM
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Drizzo
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quote:
agaricus5 wrote:

It's "Anyone Edit", so you should be able to view it in the Editor. I think only the Entrance and 1S 1W are very difficult.




Too easy, plus I can't judge accurately via anyone edit, it doesn't give me the true taste of play. Which actually is working in your favor, since the entrance has been very fun to play so far, just not easy. I've actually been quite pleased with everyones hold so far, although I'm too tired to finish any room with any serious challenge right now.
But this will be a weekend of fun DRODing thanks to this unique contest.

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04-17-2004 at 09:44 AM
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gds
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Agaricus, I have to agree it is a great hold.

For the entrance,
Click here to view the secret text

However, I'm stuck in the exit room. I don't see how to completely destroy the biggest of the two tar blobs at the bottom right.
04-17-2004 at 02:46 PM
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agaricus5
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quote:
gds wrote:
However, I'm stuck in the exit room. I don't see how to completely destroy the biggest of the two tar blobs at the bottom right.

Oh dear.

I think I forgot the mimic potion for this room. I thought it was there, but on closer looking, it's not next to the scroll at the bottom-left, as I thought.

Does this disqualify the hold?

I've got too many copies of my holds lying around - I'm so disorganised.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-17-2004 at 02:22 PM GMT]

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04-17-2004 at 02:56 PM
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