VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
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This hold contains some puzzles never seen before in DROD (I hope). If you remember the entrance to Beldin's Bunker, you know what kind of puzzles to expect here. Difficulty is more on the easy side, once you figure out what to do. It's mainly a demonstration of what can be done with DROD (e.g. simulating Sokoban and other games).

I have tested all levels, and there are hopefully no trivial solutions possible. Please give me some feedback on this hold, especially if you discover something that looks wrong!

Vortex Surfer


[Edited by VortexSurfer on 04-15-2004 at 09:19 PM GMT: v0.91: Fixed Bridge puzzle]

[Edited by VortexSurfer on 04-16-2004 at 07:49 AM GMT: v0.92: Fixed 2E puzzle]

[Edited by VortexSurfer on 04-16-2004 at 09:41 PM GMT: v0.93: Fixed Bridge and bottle puzzle again, added some explanations]

[Edited by VortexSurfer on 04-17-2004 at 11:48 AM GMT: v0.94: Fixed bottle puzzle again]

[Edited by VortexSurfer on 04-19-2004 at 08:20 PM GMT: v0.95: Added some more explanations]

[Edited by VortexSurfer on 05-14-2004 at 11:03 PM GMT: v 1.00: See Holds section!]

krammer
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 904
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Hey, I'm liking this one a lot. Classic brain teasers plus DROD equals great fun.

However, I'm having a bit of trouble with the flashlight/bridge puzzle..

Anyhow, great hold, keep it up.

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VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
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You're right, that puzzle is broken. The room is still solvable, if you



but your solution should be possible as well of course. I'll fix that as soon as possible.

VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
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The bridge puzzle is fixed now. As a side effect, you can no longer undo selections of persons to cross the bridge, but the puzzle is not that complex anyway.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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I must admit that this hold is cool.

It contains complex puzzles originally from board/logic games and looks rather overwhelming on first visit.

The problem I'm having with it is that I don't understand many of the puzzles. I understand there is a logic behind them and that these were originally logic games/board games, but I don't know of many of the ones you have put in here, and so I have to guess at the logic, which is bad, for not being able to understand the reasoning behind puzzles like these is just no fun. Plus, I'm really bad at certain types of logic puzzles, so this hold probably just isn't for me.

The ones I can do on the ground floor are:



The rest, as you may have guessed, I can't do. Some of the rooms, mainly 2N 3E, 1N 3E, 1S 1E and 2N 1E contain orb functions that I do not understand. The instructions in the rooms do not tell me enough about how the orbs work and which orbs do what to which things, so perhaps greater explanation of the orbs might be necessary.

Again, the hold is great - it's well designed, looks good and is incorporating some new ideas into a DROD hold well. I imagine it would be a fun hold to play to pther people, but it's just that these sorts of logic puzzles are just not my kind of thing.

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VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
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agaricus5 wrote:
The rest, as you may have guessed, I can't do. Some of the rooms, mainly 2N 3E, 1N 3E, 1S 1E and 2N 1E contain orb functions that I do not understand. The instructions in the rooms do not tell me enough about how the orbs work and which orbs do what to which things, so perhaps greater explanation of the orbs might be necessary.

I was not sure how much explanation would be necessary. Especially 2N 1E I thought had enough hints to figure out what to do. The Sokoban/ Solitaire rooms look admittedly somewhat complicated, but I think the actions can be figured out by hitting an orb and observing what happens. Note that you can undo moves by immediately re-hitting an orb. I may add some more explanations though if others feel the same about this.

Vortex Surfer

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
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2E has a trivial solution. Theres no need to open the red doors at all. I assume that you meant people needed to open them.

VortexSurfer
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Scott wrote:
2E has a trivial solution. Theres no need to open the red doors at all. I assume that you meant people needed to open them.

Thanks for spotting that, you're right ... It should be fixed now.

Vortex Surfer

krammer
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 904
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havbing now played around a bit more, I've got a few more suggestions/comments:

First, I've found another way to mess up the bridge puzzle:

I also don't understand 1S1E...

2N1E - having played around a bit, this also makes little sense. How do the orbs correspond to the addition sum?
1S3E
This may all sem a bit negative, but really I think this is a great hold, I just don't like it when I can't solve these puzzles.

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"Oook!"

VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
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krammer wrote:
havbing now played around a bit more, I've got a few more suggestions/comments:

First, I've found another way to mess up the bridge puzzle:

Oh, that's awful ... I'll have to fix it again ...

krammer wrote:
I also don't understand 1S1E...

I guess I'll have to add a little more explanation for this one. But you got the right idea.

krammer wrote:
2N1E - having played around a bit, this also makes little sense. How do the orbs correspond to the addition sum?

Well, as one of the scrolls says: The result may not be correct until you process it, because of missing carries. After you have finished the maze, the result should correspond to the addition sum for any input, or something's indeed wrong.

krammer wrote:
1S3E

Click here to view the secret text

×
It's possible to step into the room onto a closed yellow gate. Also, it's hard to keep track of which orbs you've visited and the room allows you to revisit them easily, which wastes time - perhaps a trapdoor in each and a red door blocking off the tar?

krammer wrote:
This may all sem a bit negative, but really I think this is a great hold, I just don't like it when I can't solve these puzzles.

No, no, I'm glad to get feedback like yours!

VortexSurfer

gamer_extreme_101
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1939
Registered: 03-07-2004
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When I first saw this thread, I thought quietly to myself.."Puzzles in DROD that don't focus on killing the lights out of everything? Never gonna work."

I was wrong.....WAY WRONG

You added a whole new element to this game, one which i'm sure will continue on for awhile. I've only beaten 2 levels, but I find this to be more addicting than Dugan's (on which im at level 19).

I havent found any major problems, except that the solitare one COULD use a bit more explaining. Lets hope that 1.7 has some of these elements.

Awesome job.....keep it up!

____________________________
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mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Amazingly intricate room designs! I'm surprised that someone found a way to couch these logic puzzles in the DROD framework. It's intriguing to use the state of the room as a (complex!) calculation machine. (And using small room regions as a map of the room -- wow!)

____________________________
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Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

Drizzo
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 179
Registered: 03-03-2004
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mrimer wrote:
Amazingly intricate room designs! I'm surprised that someone found a way to couch these logic puzzles in the DROD framework. It's intriguing to use the state of the room as a (complex!) calculation machine. (And using small room regions as a map of the room -- wow!)

Oh man, now I'm torn between doing my duty judging the I Ching puzzles and playing this hold.

I haven't seen praise like this since Loony Labyrinth (awesome hold!) and had such hope for uniqueness since Fool's Errand (so sneaky) however, there's a time limit on I Ching, so unfortunately I think this will have to wait... however, I'll be waiting with bells on, and I am truly excited.
Keep building Vortex, 's good to have builders that can get our programmers excited.

edit: oh yeah, and I dub thee "Goblin" for your efforts.
[Edited by Drizzo on 04-16-2004 at 09:38 PM GMT]
edit: you average 1.428 rank points per post at this time, Vortex, must be everyone likes it. Well I'm about 60% through, I Ching. But quality shtuff here. Actually, there's not a post on this thread that doesn't have a plus mod... interesting...

[Edited by Drizzo on 04-17-2004 at 06:19 PM GMT]

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VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
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krammer wrote:
First, I've found another way to mess up the bridge puzzle:

I've fixed it according to your suggestion - now try to mess it up again

And I'll definitely add more explanations, as some of you suggested.

(When I started this hold, I even thought about not adding any explanations at all and let the player figure out the puzzle that was being represented - Now that would have been a bad idea ...)

Vortex Surfer

VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 90
Registered: 04-04-2004
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OK, I've added some more explanations and instructions now.

Apart from that, I have always considered the hold as finished in its present state (though it's rather small). If nobody spots any further errors, I'll send it to the holds section in a few days. Thanks for all the feedback!

VortexSurfer

AgentIcarus
Level: Goblin

Rank Points: 16
Registered: 02-05-2004
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Wow, what a great hold. Sokoban, solitaire (neither of which I can do yet...)

I'm having difficulties with 1S 1E, despite (I think) knowing what I'm meant to be doing...


2E was a nice puzzle, I haven't quite got the method for 1N 2E yet, 2N 1E is confusing me:


Wheew, maybe we'll see a universal Turing machine from orbs and gates, that'd be an interesting project... You certainly did a good job of implementing these puzzles! Great Hold.

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VortexSurfer
Level: Delver

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Registered: 04-04-2004
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AgentIcarus wrote:
I'm having difficulties with 1S 1E, despite (I think) knowing what I'm meant to be doing...

I may have to add another explanation scroll for this one: I think it's mainly confusing because each process of filling water from one bottle into another is done in two stages; first you select the bottle to drain and the bottle to fill in the upper half of the room, and then you have to process the re-filling in the lower half of the room. Not very elegant, but I don't see a better way to implement this ...

AgentIcarus wrote:
2E was a nice puzzle, I haven't quite got the method for 1N 2E yet, 2N 1E is confusing me:

Click here to view the secret text

×I don't know how to encode numerals in the orbs...what am I missing?

AgentIcarus wrote:
Wheew, maybe we'll see a universal Turing machine from orbs and gates, that'd be an interesting project... You certainly did a good job of implementing these puzzles! Great Hold.

Well I guess you could build just about anything, if only the room size wasn't limited ...

Vortex Surfer