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icon Re: Mafia Terce (0)  
And what do you mean by all of the information you had was wrong? For the record, everything Chaco told in his last moments was true. So was everything zwetschenwasser told (except for when I used Web of Lies on Chaco's statement about gaining investigative powers).

You had a lot of true stuff to go on. You chose instead to believe the two things that were false: TripleM's brilliant defense and the statement provided by my Web of Lies ability.

And you really surprised us when you did so, because things were really looking grim.

Ok, but look, we have to have something to start from. In this case, I have no reason to think that Zed is going to lie to us (even on behalf of someone else), I have no way of even thinking that he MIGHT lie to me so as to take that possibility into account. It's one thing to be skeptical about statements from players. But now I have to guess (and it would have to have been a total shot in the dark) that statements from the mod might be as well? How do I even know that all the townies that we lynched are even dead? Maybe the game is still going? How far should I carry this? And it's not like the mafia need a way to make their statements appear more true. I already have no way of verifying them directly. But with WOL, the game just comes down to a coin flip. And a biased flip at that. The game doesn't change from the first day when we have the Vicini Choice. It's not that I have NO true statements to go on, it's that I can't trust any of it.

You trusted Kwakstur and didn't listen that I actually explicitly confirmed that Chaco was pro-town (although I worded it a little poorly... sorry Chaco).

But see, that's the problem. As soon as Zed says "Chaco is lying about being a cop" I now have to question everything that Chaco said, PLUS everything ZED said about Chaco. The WOL statement can't be a lie unless I'm willing to believe that Zed's statement giving us Chaco's role was a lie as well. I don't feel like I can reasonably choose to believe Chaco over Kwakstur/TripleM/Zed no matter what got said in the first 4 days.

1) Remember when TripleM saved himself by using Mafia Execution to make it look like he was framed? He probably wouldn't have risked the 50/50 chance of being revealed by the ability if he and Chaco were the only two Mafia members.

Now I was/AM impressed with TripleM's testimony and the execution was very well timed (if a bit fortuitous). Even if I HAD suspected a WOL, I could very well have been taken in by that statement. But not suspecting a WOL, or that anything like a WOL was even possible? How could I not walk into that trap? Also, we eliminated 3 (almost 4) townies because they couldn't be bothered to get off their duffs and post anything. Probably because they had nothing interesting or fun to do or say. Plus we had a traitor cop AND an insane doctor (with a necro-vote?!?! how the hell could we have guessed that to make use of it?!?). Plus the WOL. I'm sorry, but I just don't see how the mafia doesn't win here unless we get lucky and lynch TripleM on day 1.

Look, I know I sound whinny. There's no way for me to critique the game without sounding like a poor loser. But I think I have a right to be a little frustrated that after being mind-sporked for 2 weeks by people with infinitely more information than I had, when I'm finally given a glimmer of hope that maybe I have a chance of solving an interesting puzzle, I then find out that nothing I did or said or thought about or puzzled over made or even COULD have made a shred of difference and I was better off just guessing who to vote for. That even after guessing and second guessing who was lying, there were still 5 more levels of invisible hoops to jump through to come close to getting to the right answer.

Here's the thing. There are some roles that depend on people not knowing that they're in the game. Fine, but that's different from not knowing about them at all (ie knowing that they MIGHT be in the game). It is unreasonable to include rules that some people have not even heard of, or that you make up before the game because the people with access to those rules are at an unbalancing advantage by virtue of the fact that they know that there are strange rules in play (never mind the advantages conferred by the rules themselves).

Ok, I'm done blowing off steam. Despite my complaints, the mafia clearly played the last day very well, and deserved to win. And, overall, Zed did a good job of running the game.

Progress Quest Progress
02-22-2009 at 02:08 AM
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