Devante
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what's all this about the city beneath and rpg? D;

edit: ok did this really deserve 4 negative karma mods. ._.

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[Last edited by Devante at 10-27-2008 08:10 PM]

Kwerulous
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TCB - The City Beneath - this is the third DROD in the series which follows on from Journey to Rooted Hold. It was out quite some time ago.

DROD RPG - this is a very recent thing; it's a whole new take on DROD, and it works in a different way. Download the free demo to see what I mean.

DROD:TCB - http://caravelgames.com/Articles/Games_2/TCB.html

DROD:RPG - http://caravelgames.com/Articles/Games_2/RPG.html

Devante
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from the looks of it drod rpg looks totally different. is it even puzzle-based or what? i'm scared to look after what they've done to tcb (demo)

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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Devante wrote:
from the looks of it drod rpg looks totally different. is it even puzzle-based or what?

Of course it's puzzle-based! What, did you expect that DROD series will stop being puzzle-based?!

However, its puzzles are quite different. Instead of single room puzzles that aren't connected to each other, it presents the huge puzzle system. Every level is connected to each other. For example, not picking one ATK bonus in first level will cause player's weakness in tenth level etc. In RPG you don't need to be genious, but you need to be observant. VERY observant.
Also, those "hidden rooms" became more useful since there might be some useful stuff there.

i'm scared to look after what they've done to tcb (demo)

What?! What've "they" done in TCB??? TCB is the coolest game in DROD series(yeah, I think it's cooler than RPG). I don't know why don't you like new elements... but those new elements are very cool.

Devante
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ok after playing drod rpg for a bit it's ok i guess. i wouldn't buy it but it was a little bit of fun.

hope the whole game isn't full of crap though, best to keep it simple

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

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Uh guys... if what's happening here isn't the epitome of a troll I don't know what it is...

____________________________
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Devante
Level: Disabled
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i'm just saying that a lot - too much - has changed since the days of webfoot and ae.

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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This isn't a troll. You don't know what one is.

This is a dude who's flipped out because he's come back to a game that's a lot different than the one he left.

Chill.

Edit: Actually, this thread seems to have some value. Could you tell us what you feel has changed for the worse?

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[Last edited by Banjooie at 10-27-2008 08:24 PM]

Devante
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i'm just extremely surprised after downloading several holds how the different gameplay elements have affected the game.

it couldnt hurt to go back to square one could it :/

Banjooie
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Well, I believe someone recently released a hold utilizing nothing but Architect Edition elements; there's certainly value to be found on them, that's for certain.

The jump in elements is rather jarring if you're moving from AE to TCB; it was less jarring if you were there for JtRH.

Devante
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i still haven't mastered green tar and snakes. this will take too long to get used to

what's next? purple tar that eats you if you become trapped inside?

zwetschenwasser
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 200
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Hey! That would be cool!

*goes to Feature requests*

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Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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Gel and adders aren't as bad as they look, honestly.

The only reason I ever really figured out gel was I actually bought TCB, which drags you through a series of progressively more difficult rooms involving gel so you figure out how it works.

Mostly, the purpose of the elements is to allow for more complicated widgets. People have done some positively trippy puzzles, for instance, based on the fact adders can eat monsters.

More elements were added to allow more complex element interactions. Your trepidation is understandable, but give it a chance.

Devante
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i was forced to play runescape for a month by a friend.

it had an excess amount of gameplay elements that overloaded the basic concept and ruined it. i am sure this applies to lots of people too

i predict that the same may come to drod too.

zwetschenwasser
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 200
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Umm...

freak out easily much?

(sorry Briareos!)

____________________________
Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

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It's an understandable fear you have; But there's a method to the madness of the elements.

Specifically, it is to fit holes that arise within the structure of the game.

Tar, Mud, and Gel are a sort of 'complete' set. Tar can't be broken on corners. Mud can only be broken on outer corners. Gel can only be broken on inner corners.

Snakes, Rattlesnakes, and Adders are similar. Can't Hurt, Can Only Hurt Tail, Can Only Hurt Head.

It's not arbitrary. I appreciate that complexity is not always a good thing.

Gimme some time, I'll get you something better on this.

Devante
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i miss the days when i would play a larrymurk hold with just roaches, and spend ages figuring out a solution.

tbh they should work on elements that are already existent rather than creating new ones. while it does add complexity and taste to the game i don't see how they've added much to the common elements we all know and love from webfoot and ae.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

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Devante, you have a valid viewpoint, but as evidenced by the Feature Requests board, you are in the minority. Since Caravel is a business, and the purpose of a business is to make money, it will naturally cater to the majority as best it can, which means adding more features in progressive releases. The existence of Smitemaster's Selections for the 2.0 (JtRH) and 3.0 (TCB) engines are examples of releasing new official holds without adding new game elements. The pre-2.0 game engine (that is, AE and Webfoot) couldn't support this business model so that's why I doubt you would see more official holds from the original set of elements unless someone makes a Smitemaster's Selection with only those elements.

I'm pretty sure there was a feeling near the release of JtRH that we were getting pretty close to the end of originality with the original AE elements, at least in terms of truly new ideas. I'm also sure that there were a lot of ideas with just the JtRH elements that could have been explored before TCB came out.

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Snacko
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The problem with "working on existing elements" is that old holds would be lost, and considering the large back catalog of player-holds, that's a problem.

Really, just play through TCB, the new elements aren't that intimidating.

____________________________
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Mechadragon
Level: Delver
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Devante wrote:
i was forced to play runescape for a month by a friend.

it had an excess amount of gameplay elements that overloaded the basic concept and ruined it. i am sure this applies to lots of people too

i predict that the same may come to drod too.

Well, there ARE themed holds that focus on a single element.

EDIT: How would making existing elements more complex be better than adding more elements and creating complexity that way?

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[Last edited by Mechadragon at 10-27-2008 10:31 PM]

AtkinsSJ
Level: Master Delver

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I don't think Devante means making the existing elements more complex. I think he means making more puzzles using them. I also found the number of new elements with TCB overwhelming, though the TCB hold does guide you through them.
Fewer elements per puzzle means that the puzzle is simpler. Not necessarily easier, but there's less you have to get your mind concentrating on all at once. So you can concentrate on solving it, rather than on what stuff does.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
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Devante.
If you want to play around with AE only elements, start here and just move forwards. Or if you're decent at building rooms, you can campaign for a return to basics, and show us all how it's done. After all, wraithwings still confuse most people.

I also think it's a little unfair to judge elements by playing around with them in the editor. When you play through TCB it shows you the puzzle potential of them.

Having said that, not all the TCB elements are smash hits. Stalwarts and builders, for example, aren't all that great IMHO.

Beef Row
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Abel's Hold

I believe this recent hold only uses AE puzzle elements.

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Sillyman
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NiroZ wrote:
Stalwarts and builders, for example, aren't all that great IMHO.

That said, they do fill a niche... you can't build directly from scripts in not-RPG, and Stalwarts are the first strictly-pro-you element you don't control directly... even if they are mostly idiots....

(I said mostly not all please don't kill me Tendry, it's not worth the HP...)

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Snacko
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They're not "strictly pro-you", they can be as bothersome as builders, they just don't tend to be used as so.

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[Last edited by Snacko at 10-28-2008 12:14 PM]

Sillyman
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... primarily pro-you then. My point is: They're the first ally that you don't control directly. All the rest react to your command.

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Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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Or he could just play some other game

Lamkin
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Devante wrote:
ok did this really deserve 4 negative karma mods. ._.

Nope.

zwetschenwasser
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 200
Registered: 05-22-2007
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Ahh!!!! New avatar! Freak out!

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Currently working on GaTEB and KDD (never finished the silly thing).