The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

File: The Rivers.hold (10.4 KB)
Downloaded 73 times.
License: Public Domain

This hold has two levels so far, with a dozen and one and a half dozen rooms respectively. It's fairly easy.
I haven't even completed the demo yet, so some of the objects I've used I've never actually seen ingame, so please tell me if I'm misusing something (for example, I have no idea if a water skipper's nest is supposed to be on land or water, I'm assuming on land, but if it's on water it'd be easy to fix here.)
I've tested both levels, they're both possible. They don't have any lighting or scripting, as I'm not sure how to do those.
All criticism welcome.

Edit: DROD erased my ini file again... don't know why it keeps doing that.

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[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 09-24-2008 08:27 AM]

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

Ah, waterskippers operate on water, thus their nests should probably be on water also.

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

Ok, thanks. Updated.

talund
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 95
Registered: 05-17-2005
IP: Logged

I've run through the first level and much of the second. This is fairly simple and I prefer difficult, thought provoking rooms. Now I am not a hold designer because I lack the imagination to come up with some of the rooms that I find admirable but I think that all but the most novice players will find these rooms somewhat tedious.

I do like the layout of the rooms, I just think you are missing the puzzle element in creating solutions. And that happens to be my particular bias. The best room that you have created from my perspective is the Entrance to Level 1 which does take thought and shows some creativity.

Some specific thoughts.

I don't think it matters whether the water skipper nests are on land or water. In fact, in some holds, people place the water skippers themselves on land because even though landlocked, they can be used to force a particular approach to an area.

The scroll in the Secret Room (1S, 1E) is incorrect. The room only resets if you leave before conquering the room. Once conquered, leaving doesn't matter.

Dirty Rivers 2S is an example of a room which could be made more interesting. In this case, if you made it a requirement that all of the trapdoors be dropped so that you can exit the room (done by making the exit behind a red door and by making it possible to drop all of the trapdoors by following a particular path), I think it would make the room a little more challenging and a little more interesting. This is what I assumed you had done when I started the room until I found trapdoors that could not be dropped.

One other element that you might find useful to incorporate is more manipulation of monsters to accomplish things. Again, this is something that you did in the entrance to your first level and could do in other rooms to make them more interesting.

I apologize if you find the criticism too harsh and I readily admit, while I can solve them, I can't design the types of rooms that I find most interesting. So I have to give you credit simply for trying.

I've now finished the hold and my comments still stand. If you want to see a hold that has some nice but not too hard puzzles requiring monster manipulation, you might check out Abel's Hold on the Architecture Board.

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[Last edited by talund at 09-26-2008 11:34 PM]

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
IP: Logged

I've played through the earlier version of this one too. I don't think it's a problem that the hold is easy. Like talund, I prefer more challenging puzzles myself, but we need to offer good holds of all difficulty levels on the Holds board. Unfortunately, the players who prefer the easier ones aren't the same players who come to comment on the architecture board.

I also don't think it's a problem that you put the waterskipper nests on land. They still spit waterskippers into the water, and that's what they are supposed to do. I'll note that you find them in the water in the official The City Beaneath hold.

Some comments...
Grassy Rivers
1S1E - This room is possible from either entrance, but it's definitely easier if you enter from the east. Nice little lynchpin.
1S1W - While anyone can solve this room by stepping on the arrow rotators enough times, optimizers may enjoy challenging themselves to do it with the fewest number of rotations.
1S - I did not see the challenge in this room. Just kill the roaches and leave.
Entrance - It was fun figuring out how to put each roach in its spot.
2W - This room had the minor challenge of choosing which arrow rotator to use. But it was mostly hack and slash.
1W - You fooled me there for a minute, I guess those stepping stones don't go all the way to the roach area. Getting them all onto the hot tile took a teeny bit of thinking.
1N1W - This one has a nice clean little lynchpin. I had to arrance the roaches so I didn't get clobbered when going through the tunnel.
1N - An exercise in sword technique.

Dirty Rivers - I like the theme of finding the entrance that makes the room solvable.
1W - A hack and slash room.
Entrance - I liked that I had to plan ahead a little before barging across the trapdoors.
1E - Another hack and slash room.
1S - More of the same.
1S1W - I liked this room a lot. I had to plan where to stash the waterskippers so I could run through without a sword.
2S - More hacking.
2S1W - More slashing.
3S2W - Hacking and slashing without being able to turn my sword is more interesting.
2S1E - Very nice room. I had to choose the correct paths through the trapdoors so the roaches would stay arranged properly.
3S1E - A lot of skipper-jiggling. I used 3 of the rotators.
4S1E - A reasonably challenging horde-management room. You obviously put some thought into this. On the east side, I just got across each 3 squares of bridge before another wave of skippers came.

NiroZ
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1302
Registered: 02-12-2006
IP: Logged

And completed. A fun little hold, and there was some promise shown. I liked the room where you were swordless, although it could do with some more checkpoints.

Some of the rooms that were just pure hack and slash, which left me feeling a but 'huh?' but other than that it was good.

The Stew Boy
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 247
Registered: 05-10-2005
IP: Logged

File: The Rivers.hold (11.1 KB)
Downloaded 47 times.
License: Public Domain

Okay, worked on the hold a bit this afternoon, and changed those rooms which I thought were the least interesting.

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[Last edited by The Stew Boy at 11-08-2008 07:37 AM]